1994 Oliver McCall vs 1974 George Foreman

This is a game of semantics. My observation of "hurt" becomes exaggerated to "hurt bad" in an attempt to make it more dismissible.

"Felt some shots" is a way to acknowledge or even agree with my observations but with softer wording. "Felt some shots" sounds better than my words of choice "rocked" or "hurt" as if there is any other way to feel a shot.

As for McCall being in "real danger" Again, I will add Bruno was more than happy to accept McCall's recovery retreats or clinches. So naturally he was never in danger of being stopped. Against Foreman, that may not be the case. He would follow McCall to the ropes or push him out of the clinch and make him "feel" more shots in succession.

 

There is no "Cult of Foreman". The original question mentioned George from the Norton fight. There was no wild swinging there. George seemed focused and confident. This George stops McCall.

 

Foreman was a big guy, but he wasn't some Godzilla-like giant that dwarfed every single heavyweight that's ever laced up the gloves. Foreman's punching power, his knockouts, and his tag of "Big George" make him seem bigger than he really was.
Not that it would have made a difference in the fight, but McCall was definitely more muscular and defined than was "Big" George!

But I still think Foreman beats any version of McCall!

 

Nobody stops McCall. He's almost 50 ****ing years old and still fighting… and outside of one crack binge induced mercy stoppage, he has never been stopped.

George isn't gonna pull the trick. No way.

 

How does stating McCall was not bigger than Foreman translate into such over the top nonsense? I simply don't understand the need to exaggerate and misquote someone just so you can disagree with them. Maybe I should quote this and respond with something like "McCall was not a cross dresser, why would you say such a thing?" when its clear in the quoted text that you did not.

Foreman was regularly listed 1-2 inches taller with an equal wing span. In their physical prime they both weighed 220-230. Claiming McCall is "bigger" is factually wrong.


If we are contrasting physiques I won't even give you that. They look about the same to me.

94 McCall

http://www.sportphotogallery.com/content/images/products/Sports/1793102/main/1793102-product.jpg

74 Foreman.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/fotos/foreman3522.jpg

 

While I don't discount that Foreman "COULD" of knocked out McCall, I do discount how you have set up this point with the ASSUMPTION that Bruno could of taken McCall out if he would not of been "HAPPY" to accept McCalls retreats and clinches ASSUMING he was ready to be KO'ed.

Your use fair logic most of the time, however, this logic is being OVERPLAYED by you in my opinion as it relates to the Bruno fight. So Bruno hammered McCall a couple of times in the first round and McCall got tentative? So what ? You read a complete STORY of what should of happened in that fight "IF" Bruno had simply tried for the knock out.

No offense, however, that is a WEAK point to hang so much assumption upon. Maybe if McCall had been chicken walking around the ring in the first round with Bruno, however, he wasn't. He got clocked and began being cautious.

 

Actually No, I believe if Bruno pushed the issue it wouldn't be in his best interest. I didn't say so in this post in particular but in other posts in this thread I have said as much. Bruno didn't react well to getting hit and had very poor stamina. He couldn't afford to walk into anything if McCall decided to fight back, he also still nearly punched himself out on McCall despite picking his shots very carefully and controlling the pace of the fight.

The cautious route was the only way Bruno could win. If he opened up on McCall when he was vulnerable, he might have forced a stoppage or he might have blew it. Bruno hits hard with individual shots but he is no Foreman, who could take a good punch in return and load up and swing for the fences in long flurries for at least 5 straight rounds.

This description would imply McCall got hit by a punch and simply became cautious. While there were some punches that in fact simply stopped him and had him backing up in a shell, there were also punches that sent him sprawling backwards across half the ring with only the ropes catching his fall, had him bouncing around and wincing, or even the big uppercut in the 3rd that saw him falling into Bruno clinching tightly and refusing to let go.

Bruno may not have been the man for the job, but Foreman has pressed the advantage on less opportunitic situations. He never made Chuvalo do the chicken dance either, just backed him up and rock him like Bruno moved McCall. Foreman wouldnt' have to drop McCall or make him dance, just knock him into the ropes or a corner and open up on him until someone stops it before the man dies on his feet.

 

Not really, Foreman is one of the all time great finishers and did as much to Chuvalo. I haven't seen anything from McCall that suggests he could rope a dope. Against Bruno's power his defensive instincts were to back paddle, brace himself on the ropes with arms down or put them up in a half assed guard at best, look to his corner in confusion, or clinch like crazy. Chuvalo at least tried to slip punches and fight back. If Foreman gets McCall in the same situations Bruno did, I don't think he's going to have an answer to a follow up barrage.

 

No, McCall is going to walk straight into something big first and get himself rocked backwards into the ropes. Judging by the Bruno fight, that won't take too long or be an isolated incident.

After getting shook up, it took him 5 rounds to even think of fighting back against a tiring Bruno.

Multiple instances in one fight with a rare opponent of comparable single punch power to George. Foreman's stamina is good to throw damaging barrages for at least the first 5 rounds, that's more than enough time. Nothing is a forgone conclusion.

 

-What about my descriptions of the fight are misrepresenting?

-I disagree. Bruno ran out of gas while fighting very convservative and controlling the pace. He even did as much against McCall. In contrast, Foreman could endlessly volume punch in the initial rounds before finally tiring.

-Foreman did have a straight jab. Bruno was rocking McCall with loopy rights, uppercuts, and hooks not unlike the type Foreman would throw.

-Bruno/McCall is fresh in my mind as I revisisted that one last week. The Seldon and Lewis matches I don't remember too well. I may be wrong but I recall Seldon did rock McCall a few times but he simply wasn't a good fighter to begin with, he got a little better circa 95, still certainly a notch below McCall and Bruno. I don't remember Lewis doing much of note in that first fight to be honest.

-I do as well, and have argued as much but I also awknowledge Foreman did what he needed to do to secure the stoppage. He got his man hurt, pinned him down, and he got the finish..even if Chuvalo could arguably go on, he took a huge barrage of power shots in that sequence that gives the stoppage some validity.

 

What if McCall's chin, durability and quick feet (yes, he had pretty quick feet when prime) get him past the first few rounds and we have a gassed Foreman and a still strong McCall. The fight gets really interesting at that point.

Those who are touting Foreman to blow out McCall are asking George to do what has never been done. Those who see McCall as able to outlast George and pull off the upset are asking Oliver to repeat what has been done.

 

-Probably the Bruno fight, McCall failing to finish his tired opponent and losing on the cards after getting knocked around the first 5 rounds.

-In other words you are asking McCall to be Ali or Foreman to be Seldon.

And I'm out for the weekend. Good thread overall.