1994 Oliver McCall vs 1974 George Foreman

even Trevor Berbick got the better of Tyson i. Sparring

 

Wow! I'm sick of this misconception that George Foreman is half Chinese! There is no evidence whatsoever to prove this. Relax buddy, its nothing to kill yourself about, its' not that serious. Have it your way, Foreman is an African Chinaman. Here's a cookie.

See what I did there? That's what your posts are looking like to me. Bunch of damn nonsense that has nothing to do with anything I wrote.

If Foreman being nicknamed "Big George" bothers you so much, start your own thread on it and find a crazy person that is actually arguing Big George is the biggest monster that walked the earth. I'm only interested in arguing my own opinion. Address what is written in my posts or don't address me at all, ya nut.

 

I take back what I said about this being a good thread. The crazies dragged this thing down fast.

 

May as well, leave this thread alone. Someone tried to justify Mcall turning the fight around against Foreman, because he was able to pull it off against Seldon atsch

 

Oliver Mcall> Marvis Frazier

 

Well, Seldon has a much more musclar body and he beat Joe Hipp impressively. Surely, if you can come back and turn the tide against a smooth muscular operator like the Atlantic City Express you can repeat Ali's performance in the Jungle against a the small robotic "Big is just my ironic Nickname" George Foreman.

Norton, Frazier, Chuvalo, and Lyle were just hot butter waiting to be cut. But Joe Hipp was made of iron, you know he almost beat the great Tommy Morrison and only lost to the best fighters he fought, that's all time great status in my book.

[url]http://cjonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/editorial/images/200905/new050409halloffame.jpg[/url]

 

I'm thinking Foreman by decision, or by stoppage with McCall still on his feet.

 

Glad to see the Ali Halo, which leads to the entire era being overrated, is still in effect. For those who don't know, the Ali Halo is the phenomenon by which every fighter who performed well against Ali gets elevated to a status where mere mortal heavyweights can't hope to win a fantasy matchup, and the outer rim encompasses those fighters who did well against those fighters who did well against Muhammad. Ollie can't compete with that.

Sometimes, it manifests itself in strange ways- like the suggestion that if Muhammad Ali successfully executes a gameplan, it's blasphemy to suggest another fighter could do it, too. Who cares if the Foreman fight wasn't that close and George could only last as long as Bob Foster and half as long as Wepner against Ali? Or that stamina issues were a recurring, not a one time, theme for George? Him knocking out 2 men who beat Ali is all I need to pick George over everyone else. Considering styles matchups is for suckers. That's the Ali Halo in full effect.

 

-This is the internet, we don't know each other personally and are free to make up what ever assumptions we want. But it is just that, an assumption and a weak one at that. Funny, you dont' show the same respect for Foreman that you do Seldon.

-I'm not laughing at Seldon, just the posters like sauhund and you.

-To be blunt, picking the washed up Tony Tubbs who just got KOed in 1 round by Lionel Butler on Tuesday Night Fights to beat prime Foreman is too stupid to even remotely take serious. And frankly a big steaming **** on Ali. His famous title win is now reduced to something even the gate keeper version of Tubbs could have accomplished.

-Funny I believe me and Azzer were both being called "Foreman Haters" in that Mercer thread just a couple weeks ago. Now we are blind Kool-Aid guzzling Hero Worshippers of the man. That's an impressive turn around.

 

If you have a problem with my arguments or anyone else's in this thread, address them head on. Don't hide behind blanket generalizations like this.

I will say Foreman getting favored over McCall, has alot to do with McCall simply not ever being thought of as an elite fighter with one great win whlie Foreman is regarded as an all time great Champion. The Ali fight is being used to slam Foreman in this thread more than anything, which is odd considering the opponents and manner of McCall's many more defeats.

Foreman's career is a bit more than name association with Ali. I can understand your concern if Henry Cooper was being favored to KO McCall.

 

Not a problem, just an observation I find funny. I've made my post on the matchup earlier on, and only posted my general thoughts about the Ali halo when it became more convenient to just throw it out there than to quote everyone.

To stay relevant, here's my thoughts again: If Foreman fights smart, he should win. Oliver McCall is a very live dog because young Foreman didn't have a great ring IQ and had pacing issues. That's not a one-off scenario, those were recurring themes with the young George.

And, just because McCall couldn't successfully rally against a gassing Bruno doesn't mean he wouldn't be more successful against Foreman, who had worse pacing issues than Frank did.

What should be taken out of the Bruno fight but has yet to is that Oliver McCall is the only man to have ever lasted the full 12 against Bruno. Yes, it was a losing effort, but it's something to bear in mind when people are predicting early knockouts for George- McCall's stood up to exceptional punchers without being floored, let alone stopped.

George should win, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he shot his load and McCall TKO'd him in the second half of the fight. Foreman the favorite, Ollie's a very live underdog.

 

Apply directly to the forehead.

Sorry, I just had to.

 

-I still see no specifics on how Foreman is being exaggerated in this thread because of his association with Ali. He is a reasonable favorite in this match up as you end up admiting to in tihs post.

-I've said as much myself.

-I fail to see how one could conclude that Bruno has better pacing issues or even stamina than young Foreman. Bruno fought far more conservatively and controlled, yet still blew up in every long fight. He was spent in the 5th round against McCall despite picking his spots carefully, yet McCall still couldn't rally. This does not give me confidence he could emulate Ali's feat nor is he going to outpoint George like Young.

-Bruno boxed so conservatively in this fight, that doesn't really surprise me. It's hard to take a man out landing one big shot at a time without following up. It also speaks badly of McCall that he failed to do what Witherspoon and even Boncrusher managed to do in rallying against a spent Bruno in deep waters.

-That is far more agreeable than favoring McCall outright.

 

I was thinking that earlier on. And Mr Magoo was debating with us for the exact opposite reasons on this thread:good

 

Seldon was garbage. As for his jab and quickness....

Tyson was asked about this prior to their fight.
"Mike, what do you think of Seldons jab and quickness?" to which Tyson replied
"Have you people ever seen me fight?"

The fact that your trying to big up a mediocre guy like Seldon shows, your absolutely clueless.

You try to pick out Foremans flaws...like he "gasses" (because he did that alot), but fail to look at the fact that Seldon had NO heart and a chin made of wet (used) toilet paper and Mcall still had to come behind from such a poor excuse of a fighter

As for my athletic abilities, im a former kickboxer, i hold a black belt, i used to teach my own classes, ive also studied Kung Fu, Muay Thai and boxing.

And unlike you im not fascinated by size or muscles. Put me in the ring with Seldon and id more than hold my own.

Willie Pep once won a round without throwing a punch, Well Mike Tyson won a world title without landing one. (Seldon Fight)