Jofre is my no1 Olivares no 2. The comment on Villa was "overated,first world champ from Philipines,,dethroned Wilde and is rated top 5 by almost all historians. Certainly wasn't better than Genaro and also lost to Abe Goldstein and Bobby Wolgast. Could have accomplished more ,died of blood poisoning while still champ,[at age 23]."
I would put Greb at no1 with SRR behind him. I believe the names are correct but the order is subjective.
I kept out of the last Johnson thread, if you want to start another to answer your question , be my guest.
That explains it a little. I actually think Zarate-Pintor is one of the worst decisions I can think of, so there's no underrating the explosive Mexican from this corner, but the manner in which Jofre stitched together the undisputed crown and defended in various countries scores him brownie points. As a talent, there's arguably more of a gulf between him and any anyone else at 118lbs than there is with Robinson at 147lbs.
No cigar there. Villa officially beat Goldstein over 15, and while he never got one over Genaro their last fight suggested one man was rapidly improving. Frankie went onto have plenty of success, though not without some big hiccups. After splatting Wilde, Villa battered many of the top contenders around, fighting about 20 times per year. Even with his tragic exit there was a whole buffet of achievements served up in that time.
I don't give him too much praise for beating Wilde at that stage. He was 31 and had been out of the ring for nearly 2 a half years. Goldstein and Villa split a pair of fights. Genaro beat Villa 3 out of three ,in their last bout Villa had 64 fights to Genaro's 24. Villa had some very good wins , but there is a fair amount of dross on his record too,9 fights with Mike Ballerino? And at least 30 fights that on paper look to be palpable mismatches. That accounts for nearly half his tally. He beat Bud Taylor 2 out of 3,beat Johnny Buff,an old Wilde, beat Kid Williams, split a pair with Goldstein,I don't know, is that enough to get him in the top 5?
You're right about Wilde, though some credit should be given for lifting the championship. Circumstances must be weighed. It's a wonder Pancho didn't suffer more defeats than he did. While Genaro was getting that first class grooming with national AAU and Olympic competition, Villa was punching out a living in Manila. When he eventually made the trip to the States he went for two of the bigger names right off the bat - Goldstein and Genaro. This made Johnny Buff the favourite over Pancho, but he was stopped, then Goldstein was beaten over 15, and then Genaro got a questionable decision over 15. The final tally is a result of inexperience. He also spanked many natural bantamweights while remaining a true little 'un. Despite slamming his foot on the gas throughout his career he was never knocked out. Get the '23-25 Villa in front someone for 15 and they've got their work cut out. Fleischer and Rose lived till '72 and '74 respectively but kept him at #2.