1995 - Bowe/Lewis - Who Wins?

Your right right a man vuneraable to just about anyones jab and who could get out of the way of a punch if his life depended on it would only occasionally be hit by a man with a great jab and a monster right hand who tended to destroy big men who he saw as threat .



Idiot.

 

That must be why was beaten across the ring twice by the first big man with skill he faced in Golota right ?.Because he was more skilled then Lewis :roll: :roll: .

I guess his greater skill was also the reason that he was outjabbed by just about anyone who threw a jab at him.

His greater skill also made him so elusive that most people he fought only had a 50 % connect rate against him.

 

Lewis all the way and i was more of a Bowe fan back then but you cant argue with logic

 

Having coached boxers in Colorado Springs, which has a higher altitude than Johannesburg, altitude will affect a little, but it depends on how high up. CO Springs is about twice the altitude, and it does affect the boxers just a bit. However, at half the altitude, it shouldn't be a big deal. Also, both fighters are breathing the same air. And, when a fighter is in shape, it doesn't affect them that much. Certainly, it shouldn't be affecting them as much as it did Lewis that early in the fight.

I think the real reason Lewis was out of shape was that he didn't respect Rahman enough and he was busy and distracted filming Ocean's Eleven. It was patently obvious to me watching that fight live that even early on, Lewis was in poor condition, unmotivated and unfocused. It was sad to see a champion in that state. It was actually worse than McCall, because for McCall, Lewis just over threw a right and got caught with a perfectly timed right. Lewis was in shape, but hadn't yet tightened up his punch form and didn't show enough respect for McCall's chin. I cut Lewis less slack for Rahman because his performance was pathetic for him even before he got caught, and he had no business smiling and leaning on the ropes right before he got hit. Anyone who saw Rahman against Corrie Sanders and Jeff Wooden would know that the guy had heart, conditioning, and could punch. You don't mess around with guys like that.

 

Your list contains a litany of Bowe's faults, most arguable, and Lewis's virtues, which are also arguable. Anyone agreeing with the premise that Bowe was scared of Lewis and would not beat Lewis will love what they see because it reflects their own presuppositions.

Riddick defeated a prime and undefeated Holyfield and that victory completely eclipses every one of Lewis's victories. I think that is more than simple opinion.

After that, Newman convinced Bowe to take the money road with easy defenses and he chose to fight Dokes over Lewis -which is lamentable, yes. Lewis's demolition of Ruddock at around the same time that Bowe took the title should have guaranteed their meeting soon afterwards. I fault Bowe for not stepping in front of his manager but stop short of calling him a coward like so many posters here do because it is speculative -and may be wrong. How many fighters have the intelligence or confidence in their own business savvy to overrule their managers? There are legions of great fighters who did not fight who they should have fought because management had other idea$. Bowe was no braniac and Newman was an intellectual bully who controlled Bowe.

What you don't know or have forgotten is that Bowe signed to fight Lewis in March or April of 1995. Bowe was ecstatic about it and was reported as thanking Newman profusily. That casts a little doubt on these theories of cowardice. The fight got got derailed... Who remembers why?

--Because Lewis got KOd by McCall...

After Golota punished what was left of Bowe after the rubber match with Holyfield it wasn't going to happen. I am not convinced that Bowe would not have fought Lewis indefinitely but for circumstances -including his losing to Holy in the rematch, the Lewis upset, and the incredibly short prime for Bowe.

Bowe chased money instead of glory when he got the title. That is a fact. Whether or not he was "scared" of Lewis is arguable. I remember when they faced off after Bowe took the title and Lewis was commentating. Bowe didn't look like a rabbit then.

Riddick went on to defeat 3 undefeated contenders in Hide, Donald, and Gonzalez.

Bowe reached his full potential for a brief window and that effects his legacy in a big way... but when he did he was a more complete fighter than Lewis and had the tools to beat him. Your analysis of the tangibles is rooted in Lewis's power and Bowe's alleged bad defense. A fine British block touts the same.

The problem is that no mention is made of Bowe's more versatile offensive arsenal, combination punching, superior chin, and an 85 year old strategist standing behind Bowe who's insight makes even Freddie Brown blush.

 

Stone hands. That was a great post. You convinced me to a certain degree. I think they were apprehensive about Lewis and did want to make some paydays before building that risky fight to a mega payday. I think most likely Newman anticipated Bowe defeating Holy in the rematch and THEN fighting Lewis. And like you said, timing threw a lot of things off. Lewis eventually losing to McCall screwed things up just as did Bowe's loss. If Bowe was willing to fight undefeated monsters and good punchers like Holy, Herbie Hide (who badly brain damaged Bennt), Jorge Luis Gonzalez (who decked Bowe as an amateur), and Andrew Golota, then I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to take on Lewis. Personally, I think the hugest mistake of Newman's managerial duties was taking the rematch with Golota. After Bowe got the techncial win, and they saw he had a tough time stylewise with Andrew, they should have left him alone and chalked it up to they don't want to get into a foulfest again and have another riot that would be bad for boxing. Bowe was still in a great position to wait it out a bit, he had that recent KO win over Evander, and they could have fought a couple bums and eventually had a mega fight with Lewis or Tyson.

 

Thank you, apollack. I'm hopelessly outnumbered out here, so your post was a welcome respite from the shots and countershots.

I think that human nature is what it is and we are all apt to look at things simply and make inferences based on faulty or incomplete information. Boxing has a harvest of opportunities for that because it exposes who a man is. Standing alone in the ring in your shorts taking and giving concussions leaves the boxer vulnerable to psychologists on the couch.

I was tending to the same thing about Bowe earlier in this thread, but upon returning to review there only recorded meeting -it was striking to me how much is being made of so little. Bowe was not being thrashed by Lewis and the stoppage was a bad one. Bowe actually had some good moments in there -particularly to the body.

Bowe shined only briefly, but he remains the most skilled and the most complete "super-heavyweight" I ever saw.

 

A post sometimes across as lackadaisical to prove a point, nay worries.

There really is no need in putting forth the managerial opinions at the time.

Bottom line; If Riddick Bowe truly wanted to take on the man who defeated him he should have jumped at the opportunity; he was not just hesitant, but back-peddled. So he talked about it much and perhaps his team got him convinced he could win so he was willing at one time. It does not change the fact that'd he'd prefer not to fight Lennox, which is a mental disadvantage that even the great Eddie Futch could probably not iron out.

There's only so much you can do with a man, and while later Futch lost hope in Bowe, Steward and Lewis were a killer team, and Lewis, just generally, is a huge challenge for Bowe.

Lewis' advantages over Bowe in a head-to-head clash almost verge on as being general rules.

On paper, Lennox is a bit of a nightmare for Riddick. Bowe loses his size advantage; he is neither the stronger of more powerful man, and he is out-reached against a man who knows how to utilise his reach.

Bowe buzzed off being the bigger man as it just helped his short, whipping combinations shine when he lured his victims in. Bowe was a Holyfield dismantling machine, and yes, his first victory against Evander was beautiful.

Bowe was better suited to taming a similar foe, but Lewis is nearly everything Holyfield wasn't. Lewis loved the outside fight, but when close he was a terror to deal with his strength and sly leaning-on tactics - a far-cry from the 205lbs Holyfield leaping at Bowe and being mashed.

Bowe the more 'complete' fighter... It's a toughie. Bowe seemed to flow more in the ring, whereas Lewis could sometimes get muddled as he misplayed possum, attacker and some ill timed showboating did him no favours.

However, Lewis was more versatile when it came to taming the big bangers. He'd be the long-ranged bomber against Bowe, who'd have to fight an unnatural fight to make things happen ala Golota 2.

Lewis makes it his game, raises Bowe, and then deals the bigger hands.

Could be wrong, but it's 97.53% chance that Ted Spoon is not.

 

I always thought Bowe might have the physical tools to beat Lennox (jab, workrate) but not the mental tools. Lewis also looked better against the really big ****ers. Lewis TKO 9.

 

Bowe also signed to fight Lewis in 1991. And we know how much that meant.

Stupid, actually, because in 1991/1992 he had a good chance of beating Lewis. In 1995 his chances were much, much slimmer.

 

Hide Gonzalez & Golota monsters ?:roll: .

Hide and Gonzalez where third tier HWS of the era Golota was a second tier HW .

In a good HW era the only first and second tier HWS Bowe fought where Holyfield and Golota.

And another thing every elite HW Golota fought put him in his rightful place except for one guy who got his ass kicked twice only to luckily get a win by DQ.

 

Hey, nothing personal. I'm disputing your view about Bowe, with each of us probably having seen the same amount of his fights but coming to different conclusions, but I've nothing against you as a person.

 

A mental disadvantage perhaps. Or, he could have channelled his anxiety and trained like he never had before. That is boxing. Fear is the advantage more often than not.

Your argument was used by all and sundry when Leonard dashed talk of a Hagler fight in '82. Hagler was too strong, too powerful, and Leonard is scared, they said. It took Leonard years to stand up and take the challenge but when he did, your % would have sat down.

Lewis is a huge challenge for Bowe... and vice versa! Let's not forget that. Had Lewis beaten Bowe it would have been his greatest achievement. Had Bowe beaten Lewis it would have been his first or second greatest achievement.

Futch did indeed ultimately leave Bowe because of his cardinal sins of sloth and gluttony. That is noted... but it does nothing to dispute my argument.

Too much is being made of this. Gonzalez was undefeated, on the rise, and got destroyed by Bowe in 6. He was outcold for 3 minutes. What were his advantages over Bowe? The same you and I see that Lewis had. Fact is, Bowe overcame both advantages with ease. Lewis had a style and technique that looked more like Gonzales than Bowe.

Short and whipping inside combinations are better on bigger men, not smaller men. Bigger target. Even on the inside, where Bowe is far better, it is being made into a disadvantage -and why ...because Lewis was an expert "leaner"?!

It's hard to accept Lewis's superiority with taming bangers when he was knocked senseless by second-raters... in his prime.

As to Golota, I think that a combination of the Holyfield wars and the dehydration that the rapidly weight losing Bowe went through time and time again accelerated his deterioration. He was ripe for Golota.

Lewis's chance lies at long-range, but you seriously overstate his advantages and seriously understate Bowe's. Take Bowe's complete record of performances and see them all in a general sense and it is no wonder why Lewis is the favorite. I would tend to agree. However, take a prime, inspired, well-conditioned, Futch-trained talent in Bowe and that is something else altogether.

I see this playing out as either a boxing lesson favoring Bowe if Lewis is aggressive or a whole lot of posturing if Lewis is not. That would be for the first 4 or so rounds. Bowe would probably be slightly up on the cards. And then chances are good that Bowe would get caught with a good shot, and then brawl. And that is where it would get interesting. Lewis's shots were like A-Bombs, but Bowe could throw them with more intelligence and in combinations. If Lewis gets caught with a shot he doesn't see -and that is possible if he sets and bombs away, then he could go to sleep. Bowe never did. Now before Tyson, Ruddock, and Golota are brought up, let's keep in mind that none of them jammed with him -they were overrun and did not counter and exploit the bad positioning that Lewis would fall into while launching. Holyfield, faded though he was, could and did counter, but was physically outgunned. Bowe was countering a great counterpuncher in Holyfield. He would neither be physically outgunned nor would he simply take shots and 'wait for his turn' -which didn't come for Lewis's famed quick KOs. I see Bowe coming right back at the openings with slightly less powerful but shorter punches. And finding that chin.

I give Bowe a 55% to 60% chance over Lewis -There's some Stonehands wisdom to offset the Spoon ego.

I do appreciate your better attempt at recognizing Bowe's assets.

 

Hey! No offense is taken! When I say I'm taking shots, I mean it as something welcomed, not as personal slights. I get annoyed only by hammerhead posts. Your posts are high quality.

 

I think so too Apollack. He looked past Rahman and paid the price for it. It was by some margin his worst performance.