1996 Mike Tyson vs. 2014 Wladimir Klitschko

Whatewver conclusion you draw on the fight, of course you can punhc yourself out. Do you not know this means exhaust yourself because your body & level of fitness cannot support a combination of the volume, kind, & intensity of punches you throw? Leaving you ripe for a loss, usually a KO.

This is very basic boxing knowledge. It is easy to show many folks who do this.

 

if its very basic boxing knowledge, that doesn't shine too good on your man Wlad, you are saying he lacks rudimentary knowledge of boxing, despite a doctotrate in what is it sports science? . I agree with youn in part there.

cant be much of a recognised university if his doctorate doesn't educate him in the basics. Perhaps I'll apply to the same university, for my pet dog.

 

....being unable to answer?

 

you didn't answer anything.

 

I like Vlad by a stoppage rd 4-9

 

I don't think any fighter in the history of our sport could go away from the sport for 3 years and come back to beat current Wlad. The guy works way too hard. Imagine how many hours in total training that is for Wlad. Too much peak physical condition, too much fundamentally talented, too much experience.

 

This started off as a good and interesting discussion until Herol Gee and a couple others had to start trolling and ruin it. If that guy has to pipe in, it would be nice if he just said "I hate Wlad" and left.
Anyway, I noticed that later in Mike's career his behavior got pretty bad as a fight got closer. I think it was often a reaction to being nervous, and/or knowing he wasnt up to the mark like he used to be. He did seem to try very hard once in there though.
I think a huge,skilled heavyweight like Wlad is simply too much for post prison Tyson by far. I would guess Klitschko by TKO 7, after being up 5 rounds to 1 after the first 6

 

There's no way it goes the distance. Tyson would get stopped, DQ'd, or, if lucky, take Wlad out early.

 

nice comeback

 

aye, Tyson lost so much overall speed in footwork and body work after prison that he is two different fighters in my opinion. His head movement in his late teens and early 20's is brilliant and the factor to why he could beat so many bigger guys even when he didn't knock them out. Once he lost that he was left with his power and his chin which were both pretty dam good anways.

prime young Tyson is a different story. Very close.

I would put young Tyson as a 50/50 bet to take out just about any of the ATGs. I still think Vlad could pose a big problem for prime Tyson. Just thinking it would be far closer overall no doubt.

 

WHAT are you talking about HerolGee? Where in my posts here or anywhere do you see Wlad being "my man"? You gotta actually pay attention to who is saying what, not invent a Straw Man.

All i said is essentailly it is rediculous to argue that being "punched out" is not a thing.

For the record, Wlad certainly had to have the awareness of the phenomena, but earlier did not have the right combination of pacing & conditioning to forestall it.

Anyway Tyson peak, in any kind oif fair fight that is not a Clinch-Co. production. '96 would be hard for Tyson to pull off, unless a strict referee. If he is allowed the amount of holding Holyfield was, he likely wins.

 

wlad really put on a clinic when he rematched Brewster, I give him credit for that performance. Yes sure Brewster is a bit of a random dude but wlado still beat him in such a controlling way that Brewster essentially quit in between rounds. He held Brewster in ways that frustrated and exhausted Brewster far more than it did Wlad and when he let him go he would pummel him really hard and clinch him again if Brewster tried to come in or he would pick Brewster off over and over with fairly hard shots from long distance.

Lamon did not know whether to go forward or stay back and in between he just kept getting hit with shots while in the process of Brewster trying to figure out a game plan.

Maybe Tyson would not fold like Brewster, but Wlado's style of fighting involves STAMINA clinching and holding games designed from Mannys teaching to DRAIN the other guy. The style revolves around simply getting the other guy to feel restrained so as he will then resist and then when the dude resists Wlad in this case simply flows along with the resistance and if done effectively it looks like the OTHER guy is doing at least part of the clinching. It becomes hard to tell and thus when doing it well enough the Ref will just keep breaking the fighters. One counter is to resist resisting, however, that still leaves Wlado in control and YOU off balance whenever wlado lets go. Thus Wlado is one of the first boxers ever to employ such a effective style of using strength and stamina with clinching for the purpose of draining their opponent to help secure victory. Yes sure this has always been done by degree, just not to the degree many taught Wlado to do it. You have to be really strong first. Lewis I don't think was quite as strong. The point is if your stronger than your opponent its far easier to gauge your total energy outputs to conserve energy opposed to being weaker when forced into a unfavourable position one will burn huge amounts of their total energy reaching a level of consumption that creates large amounts of lactic acid in the system thereby draining the system. Its the same principal as a car getting 40mpg going at a conservative 40mph while getting 20mpg when going at 60mpg, to go faster the fuel consumption becomes more inefficient the faster one goes whether that be oxygen or gasoline.

Don't get me wrong I am not hating on wlado saying he is cheating because he is winning in part by using methods that have never been used to the degree that manny taught him. I think its the evolution of what is and isn't successful and this is successful. I think it makes Wlado a threat to any past HW in ways that not many experts wouldnt consider today. It is frustrating fighting him. He is strong like bull and knows how to use that strength in positioning and clinching as well as he knows how to do it in a way whereby its pretty hard to prove to the Ref that its only him that's doing it because he is very good at it. Then all of a sudden a few rounds go by and the opponent is feeling unusually tired from trying to unclench himself to throw punches.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Wlodo is the best ever. I am saying he might be better via evolution then many of the experts of the old timers are willing to consider he is.

He is a athlete at 6.6 and 240. His size and abiltys are a huge advantage to his overall effectiveness in the ring. In past guys that were 6.6 and 240 did not move like Wlado. They were often defective in some way but Wlado simply isn't. From the 50's the size of the HW champs just kept on slowly climbing, yes it was back and forth for years here and there but over time it always kept on climbing overall and not lowering. Huge guys back in the day were often only as good as they were because they were so big their horrible skills were not required as much. That isn't the case anymore, the big guys just kept getting more and more well rounded.

Is wlado one of the most exciting champs?

uhmmm , like no.

in my opinion could wlado give just about any of the past HW greats a good tussle and maybe a defeat? Yes I really think he could, I don't think he would for sure, I think he really might have. That includes Ali, Foreman, Louis and all the other greats. Simply because of his overall package and the evolution of his overall package and I don't mean his ***** when I say package. With a young Forman I could see vlads style making Forman struggle with him foolishly while burning lots of energy and I could see Vlad taking advantage of that. Forman was STRONG so maybe not. However, Vladdy is bigger and really could be just as strong as well as better conditioned which I think could create problems for Foreman especially if Foreman started manhandling Wladdy back in a frustrated way that was not planned out but was just to show strength.

Same with Ali, fine Ali was faster, no doubt. However, vladdy has 3 inches on ali and I don't see Ali being able to compete with Vladdy in the clinch off that always has been part of boxing. Thus I see Ali stuck in a Chris Bryd type of roll whereby Vlad is content to hit you hard from long range if you stay at long range as well he is content to hit you when your coming real quick one time and then tie you up to control what happens once you get in.

Could I be wrong? For sure I could.

Ali was no Chris Byrd. But vlad is a tough overall package to deal with that's why he has done so well. Like it or not he uses a very effective method of boxing wrestling and does this with a purpose to change the nature of the entire fight. Without this method I have no doubt Ali and Foreman take Vladdys head right off just like Sanders took his head off. With this method I am not so sure. Its fast, Vladdy is quick in ways that he is prepared for. You swing once and miss he rushes the distance and ties you up before you can unload or while unloading which drains ones energy even more. The killer being if you take the fight outside he is a fantastic outside fighter. His jab is so good that he often does not use it simply as a confidence builder as if you watch his fights he will as Manny taught him go right back to a power jab if he gets in any type of trouble,,,,its his stepping stone, yes he uses it to measure his opponent for long periods of time back and forth, but that is at a point whereby he is using it as a bluff to GAUGE his opponents reflexes to time his opponent, thus to put too much energy into that jab would be a waste as he doesn't feel confident of timing his opponent range at that point and therefore he would have more chance to misjudge,,,,once he finds the range he will then turn the power jab up and his jab is really damned god.

the old timers will hate me for this but personally I would give lennox the best chance of beating Wlado.

Lennox was so good that he cut corners and got away with it, thus when he didn't cut corners he was even better, He had the size and the skill to compete with Wlado.

Great match ups to think about.

 

Interesting post. Foreman was very strong so would have a chance, as would Bruno. Both very strong in clinches. Bruno could fight dirty up close as well, and could rough wlad up inside.
Wlads style is also the reason haye kept dropping to his knees, so wlad couldn't sap his strength, tire him out. Gets a lot of stick for it, but it worked

 

so a hw champ didn't have the nous to not punch himself out against a journeyman? he had no back up plan, yeh?

once again, you make wlad seem incompetent.

and you make him seem even more incompetent despite trying to put further spins on it. reason for this? wlad has some severe limitations in truth - don't blame me for pointing this out its you doing all the work telling me hes incompetent.

 

Why would you say such a thing? Wlads performance was despicable.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...6HcvYf2UujP44su21nK9CPgysCN9nBcsXz7X-l9OvhdzA

And to add insult to injury , Brewster was shot beyond all recognition.

When they met prime for prime , Brewster was able to beat Wlad faster than Wlad was able to beat Brewster when he was shot and retired. Have a think about that.

This phoney can't even cleanly out box damaged and washed up hospital patients.