1996 - "Tyson Ducked Lewis" ?

My point is the same its always been, maybe it wasnt entirely Lewis at that time, based on the events of his next few fights. Maybe Ruddock wasnt the same fighter after absorbing the punishment he did against Tyson. He lost two of his next five after Tyson. He didnt have signficant enough wins to prove otherwise.

 

That doesn't automatically make a fighter washed up. Plenty of fighters have taken severe beatings at some point and still come off them the same.

So why were all those rocket scientists holding him in as high regard as ever and picking him to beat Lewis?

That depends on who he's fighting. In losing to Tyson and Lewis he was losing the biggest fights against the best opponents of his whole career.

There was no "proof" to begin with that he was washed up; and unless you somehow think getting KO'd quickly by Lewis automatically makes a fighter washed up, citing the Lewis defeat itself as proof is purely revisionist speculation.

They're enough to prove he wasn't declining, and in general prove about as much as any wins he'd ever had. You could make similar complaints about his previous "best" wins over Bonecrusher, Dokes, and Weaver. Heck, Bonecrusher was beaten by the same Greg Page that you dismiss.

I don't know about that. I'd say Dokes and Smith might be closer to the caliber of some of the faded ex-champs or contenders that Morrison actually beat in his career.

It's a moot point anyway, because the issue here is what he was going into his fight with Lennox, not what he was when he was making a comeback two years later.

 

So? The fact still remains that had comparable performances in his career that reaffirm that he had the capacity to blast out fighters quickly and unexpectedly.

 

I didnt say it did, but it was clear he was coming off of two very rough fights with Tyson where he sustained a lot of damage.

Not all were picking Ruddock to win. Also the fact that Lewis was still somewhat green and hadnt competed on the level that Ruddock had was definitely a factor.

RIght, and losing to Lewis in two after going 19 rounds with Tyson, then losing to Morrison (a level of fighter he hadnt lost to in years), showed a decline in his performances from his respective peak.

Theres no proof of anything, its all speculation, but it certainly makes a lot of sense that 19, for the most part, one sided rounds against Tyson, would take more out of a fighter than a second round TKO at the hands of Lewis. He did finish his career with a string of wins, he just couldnt beat a B- caliber level fighter after the Tyson fight.
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So Dokes and Smith were about as good as Phil Jackson and a severely faded Greg Page? Nah... Id say they were just as dangerous as the Morrison Ruddock lost to, both with better chins too.

Well he was going into the Lewis fight maintaining a high ranking coming off his Tyson fights, not because of anything he did after that. Maybe Don King knew he was diminished and thats why he arranged for two soft touches before having him fight Lewis. King was a heavy influence in the WBC at that time.

 

Because he became more consistent with that level of performance later in his career.

 

But as a few have mentioned, there's no "proof" either way it's mere speculation that Ruddock was washed up after the Tyson fight, and the real points are these;

No version of Ruddock was going to be Lewis that night;,

and Lewis won so convincingly that it's hard to tell whether Ruddock was a shot fighter or not.

He was simply overwhelmed.

And lastly, one would obviously have to be a Lewis detractor to even make this kind of argument, because the only purpose of this argument is to diminish Lewis' win.

 

Lewis didnt have to take the step aside money but he did

 

I AGREE WITH THIS DUDE:smoke

 

NAH...............LEWIS WAS AT PEAK FROM 1ST HOLY FIGHT UNTIL GRANT FIGHT....AND TUA...AROUND THERE.:smoke:smoke

 

He wasn't still "coming off" the Tyson fights, that's the point. Those fights were over a year earlier and he'd fought twice since then. What he was coming off of was two stoppage wins in which he still showed the same form he'd had before and during the Tyson fights.

He might've been "green," but he was already considered one of the top 2 or 3 leading contenders for Holyfield's title. He usually rated just behind only Ruddock and Bowe in most people's eyes.

Getting KO'd by Lewis doesn't show a decline because he never proved he do any better against a Lewis-type fighter in the first place. He wasn't the first, and certainly not the only fighter to do better or last longer against Tyson than Lewis.

Vice versa makes sense as well though. Getting blown out in a shocking and embarrassing way could have a bigger impact (psychologically if not physically) than fights in which a fighter exceeds expectations and stands up under punishment.

What doesn't make any sense is that a fighter would be "secretly" declining or shot for a over a year without showing it or anyone knowing or acknowledging it, all the while being considered at the height of his career.

What was the best level of fighter he was beating before the Tyson fight?

Why not? I would say Page suggested otherwise when he clearly outboxed Smith right after losing to Ruddock.

Jackson was a rated contender when Ruddock beat him. Ruddock wasn't simply sitting on a previous ranking, he had legitimately reaffirmed it.

Ruddock's people had tried to make a fight with Bowe following the Tyson fights, but Rock Newman publicly said they weren't interested at that time.

Again, so what? The fact still remains he had that capacity at all stages of his career, and at no stage of his career did he do it consistently.

 

The fight with Lewis was after his fight with Tyson so yes he was coming off the fights with Tyson, there is no specified time frame in that statement.

He still was a big unknown in the states where heavyweight boxing was running through at the time, and that didnt change the fact he wasnt as highly regarded as Ruddock because of his exposure on the main stage.

He stood up to comparable shots against Tyson and finished a fight. Tyson certainly had Lewis type power.

The height of his career was fighting Tyson regardless if a title was at stake. Lewis was to put him back in contention for the top level so he was getting back in line. Fighting Page and Jackson would not be a baromter of how badly he slipped.

B-, which he couldnt beat after the Tyson fight.

So what. Peter Mcneeley was a rated contender when Tyson beat him, did that make him a worthy opponent?

That may be true, but only so he could be in the same position he would have been in if he won the Lewis fight as a mandatory.

 

lewis never accepted the four million, that was what lewis got from the court proceedings. what the deal was is that lennox fought the winner of tyson-seldon as lewis was going to be the mandatory at the time. tyson's team accepted. when tyson then side stepped lewis to fight holyfield, lewis took tyson to court and won four million by sueing tyson. it wasn't like lewis said, give me four million not to fight you.

 

I never said he was shot! I just think the Tyson fights took a lot out of him both mentally and physically, and like all fighters towards the end of their career, started a clear decline in his. How many fighters come into the ring looking in great shape, but their timing and punch resistance is no longer the same? Riddick Bowe came in at the same weight he did against Evander Holyfield in the first fight when he faced Golota in the second fight, but he was a shell of himself. Maybe if Ruddock had faced a stronger caliber of fighter before facing Lewis, maybe Morrison, it would have shown up?
Ruddock is overated anyway. Besides being a hard puncher, there was little else to him. His whole legacy was based on losing to Tyson twice, and Lewis best win is based on how much faster he beat him than Tyson did.
The bottom line is Ruddocks entire career peaked with Tyson and went down after that.

 

"Coming off" means it was just recent, if not his previous fight. Neither is the case. He laid off for 8 months after the Tyson fight, then won two fights, the second of which was among his most impressive career wins.

That's what you say, yet there's a number of instances of Lewis' punches either doing more damage or finishing an opponent quicker than Tyson's.

No, the height of his career was entering the Lewis fight, when he was rated on par with Bowe as the most deserving contender for a title shot.

He already was in contention for the top level. Both Holyfield and Bowe turned him down around this time. Holy had the option to defend his title against either Ruddock or Bowe and opted for Bowe. Ruddock only agreed to fight Lewis on the understanding that he would be guaranteed the next title shot if he won. The WBC even said beforehand that if the Holy-Bowe winner did not agree to defend against the Ruddock-Lewis winner next, the latter would be automatically recognized as its champion.

Why not? Page didn't just crumble, he forced Ruddock to pursue him and work for the win. Anthony Wade was good enough to be a barometer, and he was a lesser opponent than Page or Jackson.

What makes his pre-Tyson opponents distinctly better than the post-Tyson ones?