1997 Roy Jones easily beats any version of Rocky the BUM Marciano

This is typical of the hypocrisy of Jones apologists, because in the next breath you will be telling me that I should admire Jones for beating a string of non entities and fighters outside the top 10.

No it was not like Sam Peter beating a 38 year old James Toney, because Moore was the current #1 ranked heavyweight, and had gained the status by beating most of the top contenders of the division.

This is exactly the sort of win that is so conspicuously lacking on Jones’s resume, so if it doesn’t impress you, then you must have a very low opinion of Jones indeed.

 

Once again, you are attributing to me words I didn't say.

Toney was non-officially the WBA heavyweight champion, having beaten John Ruiz, as well as having stopped former hw champ Evander Holyfield, drawn with former hw champ Hasim Rahman and outpointed former hw prospect Dominick Guinn.

 

Either way, if you are arguing Jonses corner, it is probably best not to try to pick holes in Marciano's opposition, because anything you can do in this regard, can be visited back on you fourfold.

 

:good

 

Me picking holes in Marciano's opposition? Read the contemporary write-ups, look up hundreds of write-ups on Marciano, most refer to Moore as an old light-heavyweight. Just one year later, they called Moore ancient in the bout vs Floyd Patterson.

 

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actually this fight-thread should not be even considered seriously, it is a complete missmatch. and i would be scared for the life of jones

 

You want me to look at heavyweight rankings? I said many-many times what I think of heavyweights. They are the weakest original weight class, and always have been.

 

Rather have the March 2003 Jones to put the weight on an even keel.

RJJ was throwing cracking hard shots against Ruiz at 193. His left hook and straight rights were fierce.

A pressure fighter and less talented athlete (even one as formidable as Marciano) is best paired in his prime against either a young (still developing not physically peak or strong) version of RJJ or an old version losing his mobility. That would maximize the possibility of catching him or pressuring him into a mistake.

Unfortunately, RJJ from '97 forward is neither of those.

Jones is the opposite of the ATGs Marciano fought and defeated. As hard as those fights were for Rocky he was always the far fresher fighter because he was either younger, had far fewer fights (rounds), or both. It was generally a battle of attrition that served the younger man well. Jones in '97 is younger by a few years than Rock was in both Charles' fights and the same as when Rock (28 years old) fought a hundred and sixty-seven year old Joe Louis in late '51. He is peak quick with adequate maturity/strength to stick to the script in using his comparative advantages to offset Marciano's strengths and exploit his weaknesses.

Marciano has to get inside and be close with a huge SIX inch reach disadvantage. RJJ is greyhound or cat quick. RJJ simply hits him square with lead rights over and over again as he rushes. Maybe it could be different if it was old time wrestling and they started in a down clinch. Across the ring means eighteen or twenty feet to try and track RJJ down. Pretty difficult for Rock. RJJ will keep hitting him coming in until the punches add up (and if it is the '03 version they will have an effect pretty quickly as he'll have NO trouble with Rock's strength at 193 pounds himself) and Rock's face demands he finally takes the foot off the pedal from an accumulation of unblocked punches to the grill without relent. Huge gulf in athleticism, quickness, and speed.

If it's the 2003 "Ruiz" version then he STOPs Marciano under the distance - probably on cuts. Rock takes a massive beating. This the most powerful version of RJJ ever. Was it assisted? Could be. "Help" is commonplace throughout most all professional sports for many, many decades. Hard to separate the clean from those that are not when so many are making the same choices.

If '97 then the smaller Jones simply uses his legs to remain out of range when he wants and to explode into range when Rocky is unprepared or defensively ill-positioned. Unless a well-timed bomb lands (and he'll be definitely winging shots - and catching a ton of air most of the time), Rocky loses wide on points. Prime Roy doesn't really shell up or try to weather the storm until the opponent punches himself out but under threat attempts to use his own offense as defense. It would take a high-light reel home run shot to take out Roy. His vision, timing, and anticipatory abilities means he always is able to "see" what slower athletes are coming with and not merely get out of the way but position himself for a hurtful counter.

Grew up with the fervent Marciano fandom from the older generation in the US. Never so impressed. But, he was fit and durable. Understandable that to old Italian-Americans he was tremendous. Everyone needs a hero from their own. Frankly, while white, I've never seen even one in boxing I was ever in awe of. Always hoped there would be one. Probably didn't help that I was taken to see a bunch of Mike and Jerry Quarry fights as a kid. Getting hit in the face until you bled because you lacked speed, quickness, and agility never seemed to be indicative of great athletic talent to me (but perhaps it is something in the water for others who saw or see it differently). It did seem to be a most common genetic predisposition. If you were a kid looking for heroes you were better off focusing upon QBs, some linebackers, and a variety of baseball players like pitchers rather than any boxer. Just a poor or at least somewhat unimpressive combination of SPEED, reflexes, and coordination.

Sort of like watching the 100M. Some people are good with watching guys run in the low 10s. If may be good if you weren't aware that there are others doing it much faster.

 

It wasn't about the precision. It was about tenacity! Marciano was never a pretty puncher like Joe Louis in the regard. But he got the job done, effectively at the highest level.

Against Moore in round 6, we saw a defensive wizard(Moore) use his skills to make Marciano miss over and over again. He even landed some brutal right hand counters on Marciano. How did Marciano react? By turning it up a gear, throwing non stop punches with bad intentions on every punch. When I say non stop, I mean he literally threw non stop punches for nearly 30 seconds straight. That sequence of punches broke Moore down mentally as well as physically. On that 2nd knockdown, you see Moore shake is head as if to say "What the hell can I do with this animal?" Marciano even threw some nice head movement in there, made Moore miss a few times right on the ropes.

 

re watch that last exchange on the ropes. Marciano threw in his some head movement and made moore miss and countered him before flooring him. Not many fighters could keep poise like that, in such a brutal exchange.

 

Janitor,

You have made some excellent arguements in this thread. If I may add, right before facing Marciano, 38 year old Archie Moore knocked out # 1 light-heavyweight contender and future hall of famer Harold Johnson. That is the type of level Archie Moore was still fighting at(even at 38 years old) when he took on Marciano. My question to you, when Roy Jones was light-heavyweight champion, did he defeat his # 1 contender and biggest threat out there?

 

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