2 co-champs that Holmes did not fight in his ERA

Holmes likely would've beaten all of them.

It is to my knowledge that he actually planned on unifying with Tate, however, as with litterally every promissing heavyweight aside from Holmes himslef in the first half of the 1980s, he lost the important fight and swapped wins/losses with the others of the group. Mike Weaver and Trevor Berbick both destroyed the Holmes-Tate match up by knocking Tate out.

A Holmes-Weaver rematch could've been marketable seeing how their first fight was a slugfest, but it was still a fight inwhich Holmes (who was sick) knocked Weaver out and was ahead on the scorecards as it was. Weaver also stated that Holmes was the true heavyweight king, despite the title being fragmented by politics.

A Holmes-Tate fight was still alive, though, despite the come from behind Weaver KO. In 1980 John Tate and Trevor Berbick fought to determine who would fight Holmes for the championship. Berbick ended up clubbing Tate down for a KO win and went on to lose just about all 15 rounds to Holmes.

Page and Thomas would've had the best chance at an upset over Holmes seeing how they'd have fought him in the last 2 years of his reign, inwhich Holmes was rapidly declining. Tate would've had the misfortune of fighting a peak Holmes, and Holmes would probably have taken him apart very decisively as he did to everyone he fought bar Weaver from 1978-1982.

Greg Page followed suit with the other top heavies (again, except for Holmes) and was incredibly hot and cold. Putting a great performance in one night, then looking like crap the next fight. Holmes, had he not been offered (and given) nearly a million more to fight Marvis Frazier and Scott Frank in 1983, would have been in the ring with Page. 1983 Holmes was past prime, but still clearly the best heavyweight in the world. Assuming the very best version of Page shows up, and Holmes shows up motivated, I think Larry outjabs and outfights Page enroute to a competitive but clear decision win.

A Holmes-Thomas fight was viable in 1984 and 1985. As was a Holmes-Page fight, but David Bey decided to cancel the 1985 Holmes-Page fight by out pointing Page in the eliminator.

Holmes was not active in 1984 because he fight was Gerrie Coetzee was called off by the promoter just a month before fight time (scheduled for June, 1984), thus making 1984 a wasted year for Holmes, who fought Smith late in the year following Smith's come from behind KO over the 21-0 or 22-0 Frank Bruno.

Had the Coetzee fight fell through sooner, Holmes may have stepped into the ring with Thomas in 1984, and I'd favor Holmes to win a close, clear decision at that point.

Pinklon Thomas stood the best chance against Holmes in 1985. It would be determined basically by how seriously Holmes took him. If Holmes showed up less than focussed like he did against Carl Williams and Michael Spinks, Thomas would probably win a close decision against Holmes. If Holmes shows up focussed and in shape, he probably would have been able to grind out a close decision.

A Holmes-Thomas fight would've been the most interesting out of the bunch, in my opinion.

What's happened to Canelo Alvarez recently kind of reminds me of Holmes. Canelo two times in a row planned on fighting a name oponent, and two times in a row the name oponent lost just before the fight was made, thus ruining the big fight party. First he was planning on fighting Victor Ortiz, but then Lopez went and crashed that party. He then planned on facing Miguel Cotto, but then Trout came in and stopped that parade.

Had similar events not occured to Holmes, we most likely would not be viewing such match ups as fantasy.

 

Holmes would most likely have outboxed Gerrie had their 1984 fight not been cancelled.

I think Holmes would have beaten Dokes with his jab enroute to a decision win. A Dokes-Holmes fight would not have been likely though, because the two were friends and Holmes would not be getting the huge payday that he got to fight his friend Muhammad Ali.

 

Dokes would have been tough for Larry.

 

Holmes, in my view, loses major points for not fighting either Greg Page or Pinklon Thomas.
Greg Page was Holmes' mandatory contender and deserved a title shot against Holmes. Page won an eliminator fight and was, by all rights, the number one contender.
Holmes did not grant Page a title shot.
Considering that Holmes has always been perceived as a guy who fought any and everybody, for some reason against Greg Page (and later against Pinkie Thomas) Holmes all of a sudden got very picky and choosy.
The fact that both Page and Thomas were often hot and cold fighters who didn't always show up in peak form does not negate the fact that they were both very talented and capable fighters.
My hunch is that Holmes knew this and simply decided to take easier paydays for more money.
Holmes even acknowledged publicly how he didn't want to fight big, strong heavyweights and instead wanted to fight little guys that he could beat on.
That doesn't sound like a very impressive war cry from a heavyweight champion.
Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon were both novice, inexperienced fighters when Holmes took them on and they both pushed Holmes to the brink. Why couldn't have Thomas or Page risen to the occasion on any given night and showed up ready for battle against Holmes?
Both Williams and Witherspoon were hot and cold fighters as well, but nobody knew that at the time they challenged Holmes.
And Holmes gets credit for taking on both of these guys even though they were considered good but very green prospects at the time.
Had Holmes known just how good either guy was, he probably wouldn't have fought them.
But in the case of Thomas and Page, I think Holmes did know that both guys were dangerous, so he elected to take the business route!

Holmes was no doubt a great fighter, but even great fighters duck opponents from time to time, and Holmes was no different!

 

I'll say this :

People often contrast Holmes (7-year reign, 20 defences) favourably with the '80s alphabet champs' (most of whom lost in first or second defence) but some of those guys were really put through the wringer when it came to consecutive tough match-ups.
Holmes started his reign with defences against Evangelista and Ocasio ! And his next ones, Weaver and Shavers, were at least expected to be easier than they were.

The likes of Witherspoon, Page, Thomas, Weaver, Tubbs, Dokes etc. all had to fight a tough, proven, and often prime challenger, straight away.

 

I believe Holmes would of beaten them

 

Dokes didn't have the power to trouble Holmes, nor the boxing ability, but his speed would be a major problem, but Larry would overcome late for a decision win.+

 

It's very, very difficult for me to put the blame on Larry for the Page fight not coming off when he was very open in his match making choices. He'd step into the ring with whoever got him the most money. King offered Holmes something like 2.8 million to fight Page, yet Holmes got 5 million to fight Frazier and Frank. I think Holmes raked in 3.5 million for the Frazier fight alone.

It should not have been possible for him to be offered more money to fight Frazier and Frank than to fight Page. Don King knew Larry would take whichever fight paid the most and purposely lowballed Larry with the Page fight in 1983, knowing full well Larry would go and make more money fighting someone else.

I would criticize Larry for fighting Frazier had he been offered the same amount to fight Page, but he was offered quite a bit less for the Page fight and took what made him more money, as any other champion would have done.

Holmes was planning on making his 2nd title defense against Jimmy Young, however Ocasio defeated Young two times in a row to get the shot at Larry.

Again, Holmes had a bit of the Canelo syndrom with that. He was planning on fighting a better and bigger name fighter, however the said fighter blew it and Holmes ended up fighting the lesser and smaller name fighter.

I don't see how Shavers could've been much easier for Larry. It was either going to be Earnie or Norton in the ring with Larry that September, 1979 night, and seeing how Earnie blasted out Norton in the 1st round, he earned the shot. Holmes once again won every round against Shavers, barring the 7th inwhich he was dropped.

 

Bill,

Hi mate, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. You've got great knowledge.


Regards, Loudon.

 

Dokes at his best was very good, he was ranked in the Ring top10 for six consecutive years. If he brought his A-game, Holmes would've needed to fire all cylinders to get the win. Thomas is another boxer who had a decent chance - he peaked in 84/85, which coincided with Holmes declining.

It's sad how quickly Thomas was over the hill, drugs destroyed him. When he fought Holyfield in '88, you saw the difference between the effect of recreational drugs and anabolic drugs. Evander just thrashed him for all seven rounds.

 

As an aging champion, Holmes meet Witherpsoon, Smith, Carl Williams, and Spinks. Dokes would have been hard to make as he was a champion for a different alphabet belt.

Pre 1984, I think Holmes beat both Dokes and Thomas. 1984-1985, I go the other way.

 

Once Larry hits Michael with that jab, Dokes will fall apart.