20 years ago, Roy Jones Jr. beat John Ruiz.

It's easily a top 5 win for him . Ruiz was recently competitive against Holy and after this fight also .... And in 20 more years, it probably still will be a very underrated win for RJJ ... I don't even like RJJ, but who was he at HW .. a nobody .. and people think it is so easy to go up in weight for your first time .. he should have fought the 250 pound Lewis for his first HW ever?? what a joke statement that is

 

To quote the great Jim Croce, he “looked like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple of pieces gone.”

 

I was up for it at the time. Looking forward to see Roy let it hang out.

I wanted to see Roy overcome the specific challenges that Ruiz was expected to present.

Those challenges were simply not put forth.

For fights just before and just after Jones, Ruiz was 233 lb and 241 lb respectively.

You’ll see through the Holyfield trilogy that Ruiz’s incrementally increased.

For Jones, Ruiz shaved off 7 lbs from his previous fight. The word was that Ruiz was going to try and “outbox” Roy - sounded ominously similar to the egotistical folly of Hags vs Leonard.

I believe NO ONE picked Ruiz because they believed he could outbox Roy. They picked Ruiz for his superior size, dimensions and direct use of that same to full advantage - holding, clinching, mauling - fighting ugly.

Combine Ruiz’s loss in weight and curious early rd strategy with Nady’s preclusion of anything that even hinted at in close fighting, let alone clinching and mauling - and you had the perfect ingredients for a non too surprising Jones’ victory.

It devolved into a boring fight, of predictable complexion and outcome. A very low combined punch output as I recall.

Of course, that is in part, taking Jones rarified skills for granted - knowing and accepting what Roy could do - but at the same time, seeing Ruiz himself, either by foolish election and/or stringent policing by the ref, fighting notably against type - totally removed from his strengths.

At the time it was joked that Ruiz’s corner must’ve been shouting to him “Don’t do something, just stand there!”

Ruiz was the Alpha and Omega of Jones’ actual and potential conquests at HW. All she wrote.

If not for Ruiz, who would Jones’ have beaten more easily for a piece of the HW Title?

In terms of Jones’ unprecedented goal and the least possible requirements for achieving same - The Quiet Man fit the scenario like a glove.

 

Frankly, This is garbage from you ... what does this mean ?? No one picked Ruiz to out box Rjj? really ?? no **** sherlock .. cmon man

he weighed the same for Holy in the first 2 or close to it... so it wasnt totally out of the ordinary .. so bfd .... why are you making this into Ruiz shedding some weight. He lost 7, and Roy went up 20? cmon man.. WAS Ruiz competitive in his fights before and after .. thats all you need to answer .. because for you to say that going up in weight is some easy task ,, well then you are just a " name dropper " like the OP , and awardedsteak ... so your position is he should have fought the the 250 lb Lewis for his first HW fight ever ?? Really..
stop making this about what RUIZ didnt do ... we saw what he did prior And AFTER .... this was a GREAT win for RJJ .. Styles make fights .. and this was a prime example of it ..

 

Good ole Leroy brown

 

Surf, -it isn’t garbage, but you are reading as a little bit too emotionally invested in RJJ despite claims to the contrary.

No sh*t Sherlock? How does that even apply here? Seems apt to have highlighted the said facts because you’re choosing to ignore them even now. Let's ignore Ruiz' performance and celebrate Roy's performance in isolated, blissful ignorance.

How was Ruiz projected to prevail over Jones? Was he not expected to hold. clinch and maul, as was his established MO, utilizing his CHIEF strengths - which weren't anchored in boxing ability? Was he NOT expressly prevented by Nady from even getting close to Roy - lest he dare rough Roy up? Damn, 1the Quiet Man got a little bit rough in the first and almost put Jones out in the first round - whoops!

I covered Ruiz’s weights for Holyfield - why rehash it? You didn't make any point beside saying "BFD". I also said that Ruiz expressly dropped 7 lbs from his previous fight (why do that?) and following the match against Jones, Ruiz went back up by 15 lbs. It seems Sher-Puglock does need to deduce these things and make them clear to you.

Man, I didn't even get into Jones roiding up for the extra bulk - with Ruiz inexplicably dropping weight to meet Roy part way there? Yep, something else to ignore. So, a cornerstone for Roy's celebrated success against Ruiz was malleable as an excuse for his demise thereafter - each way bet? Yeah, c'mon man.

 

he was the HW champ .. and you didnt answer me on how Ruiz performed BEFORE and AFTER in his fights with Roy ... was he competetive or not .. thats all that matters, who was Ruiz losing to in his current fights before and after Roy at HW ?? now a Lhthvy steps up for the 1st time ever
all you say is how is Roy supposed to prevail over him .. well ? Roy has NEVER fought at HW before and Ruiz is the champ .. make sense now ?AND that is your mistake unless you think going up in weight HUGE for the first time ever is a Gimmie .... If you said to me .. well boxing has fallen off a cliff and it is a complete joke now ,, then I would say I would agree with you and be done with it .. BUT saying a Lhthvy going up to HW for the first time ever and fighting for a tille is some walk in the park ,,, then I stick to my original statement .. Dont tell me that Ruiz lost 7 ,, when Roy had to carry around 20 plus more.. then you dont understand weight

I dont care about the Roid issue ..... was Ruiz competitive in his fights prior to Roy and after .. thats all that matters ... styles make fights .. and for you to assume that going up that much in weight for the first time ever is easy .. you are wrong .... again is your position that he should have fought the 250 pound Lewis for his first HW ever .. like the ignorant OP said ??

and interested to hear your opinion on if Roy had 4 more greater wins than Ruiz ,, if so tell me thanks .. a fighter who didn't lose for 14 years and a sharer of titles record holder

 

You're just jamming it up with pure rhetoric now - I understand the ramifications of both gaining and losing weight, and everything has always made sense to me from the get-go - as my prior posts have clearly illustrated.

You don't care about roids? Boom! Right there - you're confining the discussion to your own self-serving parameters. Doesn't matter if you don't care - the roids were a significant factor - but even after your choosing to ignore the roids you choose to remain on the subject of weight and claim I don't understand the logistics behind Roy having to carry 20 lbs? Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Lol. There was only ONE guy on the roids in there, if Ruiz was on the juice, I'm pretty sure you'd shouting it from the roof tops - but you can keep ignoring that which doesn't suit you.

I'm not wrong. The bullets from Ruiz's weight advantage gun were removed - as I've already illustrated, I don't have to repeat the rationale I've already provided.

And while ignoring that which doesn't suit you - you demand your questions be answered? They've been answered on the whole. What does it have to do with it IF Ruiz was competitive or not in his fight prior to and/or straight after? - he weighed 7 lbs more prior to and 15 lbs in the fight after and during those fights, his preferred style of fighting wasn't militantly policed as it was in the Jones fight - you're ignoring the ALL the differences in the Jones fight, relying abstractly on whether Ruiz was competitive or not, prior to and after.

Btw, I didn't literally say it was a walk in the park - if you read properly, I actually gave Roy his just due per my own opinion - but apparently, I wasn't sufficiently gushy.

You can stick to your opinion; I will certainly stick to mine since I haven't read anything sufficiently compelling to change it.

 

my questions have not been answered only avoided ... You are falling back on roids as the strength of your argument and that tells me all I need to know here .. Again , you will not comment on Ruiz's record/performance immediately before and after his fights with Roy which is the entire argument.. And Roy moved in weight a lot MORE than Ruiz lost .. but you seem to not understand that for some reason ?? ... .. for a Lighthvy coming up for the first time .. I see you didnt talk about him supposed to fight Lewis ?? At least you are not that clueless .. did you see hagler move up to fight Spinks ??
You are focusing on steroids for some reason and I dont know why

 

Well @Loudon .. this is your wheel house .. what are Roy's top 5 wins. Clue me in thanks

 

I think you have to put it into perspective. Ruiz showing in that fight was just awful, he just showed Jones way too mich respect. Ruiz then went on to lose to a fat Toney.

 

Surf - more rhetoric. I'm not the one lacking any clue.

You can create a false narrative that suits you, but the fact is, your questions have been answered - and meanwhile, you're ignoring multiple points, including the roid factor - which is part of the argument, not the only feature to a multi-faceted argument.

As Ruiz fought in the fight prior to and after Jones, he was NOT allowed to engage Jones thusly - Nady ensured that. I am not sure what you're not understanding about that - or, if you're choosing to ignore the CLEAR point - then WHY? I made that point very CLEAR in the first instance. Did Ruiz fight Jones as he would usually fight anyone else? I've answered that. YOU haven't.

DEAL with the question of the roids - so, you're okay with that and still fully credit Jones? Bite the simple bullet. You still want to talk Jones "moving" weight a lot more than Ruiz - but you bury head as to HOW Jones moved that weight - and totally ignore the weight Ruiz came down to NATURALLY - and WHY?, to "box" Jones Jr. Lol. So, to avoid the roid factor completely, you falsely suggest that is the ONLY component of the argument - and even if it was the ONLY argument, it's a valid argument in its own right that YOU are avoiding.

I see you're adopting an MO of claiming you're not being answered (when you clearly have been answered) while, in all irony, you're not answering/addressing multiple points yourself.

Now you're talking Hagler vs Spinks? Hagler didn't use for one thing (I know, I know, at least as it pertains to Roy, the subject of roids is taboo for you, it doesn't suit the narrative) and Spinks was THE MAN at LH. considered by many to be the greatest LH in history. Was Ruiz THE MAN at HW? Please.

Did Jones himself not talk fighting Lewis after beating Ruiz? Also talk of Holyfield, Tyson, Sanders? If Jones talked it, why do you have an issue anyone else talking it? Of course, NONE of those bouts materialized.

Ruiz was the opportunistic bottom of the barrel challenge - bottom level entry - and then Jones was OUT. And at that time, based on the victory over Ruiz, there was a good number of people gushing that Roy could prevail over the other HWs mentioned.

 

Nice chatting with ya as always pug

 

All good my man and likewise.

 

Did RJJ pick Ruiz because he was a rare/the only HW titelest around this time he thought he would likely beat? Yes, imo.

Could I count the number of ex MW titlests I'd favour to beat the same Ruiz, with the same ref, whilst weighing under 200lbs, on the digits of both of hands? Yes. On the digits of one of my hands? Probably. With access to Roids? F#*k knows, too many unknown variables for me.

The above two paragraphs aren't mutually exclusive, imo.

Clearly the win isn't as impressive as if he'd beaten Lewis or Vitali. It's not in contention for the greatest win in boxing history. It's a damn fine win, imo, though.