2005 Wlad Klitchsko vs 1960 Sonny Liston

Klitschko. KO 3

 

Liston KO4

 

This.

I find it amazing how overrated Liston is in H2H matchups and how underrated Wlad is. "Oh, but his chin" is the usual mantra vis a vis Wlad. Jesus H Christ, if Sam Peter caught Liston flush with his power shots ol' Sonny would have been tucked into bed and put to sleep for the night. No milk and cookies, either.

Let's put this shoe on the other foot: Little Marty Marshall, a SMALL CRUISER broke Liston's jaw in one fight and knocked him down in a second. Cleveland Williams (all 210 odd lb of him) and Zora Folley (under 200lb) lit Liston up with combinations and had him covering up like a bullied fat kid. Ali, who was never a great puncher, absolutely flattened the "tough guy" Liston.

These, excluding Ali, are not ATG's and not on an ATG level. Furthermore, they are relative midgets compared to the guys like Peter (245lb) that gave Wlad problems and midgets compared to 245lb, 6'6 Wlad himself.

"Oh, but Liston was scary" is another tired old canard flapping into the sunset.

No, what's scary is when you're fighting a giant and you find out that not only does he have superb technical skills, but that you can barely reach his supposed glass jaw without getting peppered rotten with an ATG jab and eating pinpoint accurate and thunderous straight rights all night long.

IE - fighting Klitschko is scary.

 

so u mean the one that got wiped out in seconds by retired failure sanders, would dominate prime HoF liston, ok.

for your next trick, drink the kool aid.

 

"Wlad never lost to a fighter under 235lbs"

Lewis 227 when he smashed Roddock.

Tyson 215 when he blitzed Holmes.

Wlad wouldn't lose to sub 235 pounder??............LOL

 

Marshall knocking down Liston has never been verified want to be the first to do so?
Neither Williams of Folley dropped Liston, being made to regroup is sensible .Having your jaw broken and carrying on to lose a split dec is a badge of courage and NOT the sign of a coward, similarly so is having your nose broken yet coming back to ko your opponent[Williams] is another sign of bravery. Trade with Wlad and he falls apart he could not handle pressure his MO was to jab jab jab hold when ever his opponent got close and gradually wear down his opponent going for the ko only when he was good and sure he wasn't placing himself in any danger. Sam Peter? Who did he ko who was any good he was a crude clubber ?
Wlad had an ATG jab so did Liston and it was longer!


Liston walked through Williams punches. Prime Liston had a proven chin Wlad did not!

 

Liston by destruction. Liston would be a solid 6.1 tall fighter weighing a trim 225lb these days. Liston decks him once, early. Wlad gets up. Liston decks him again. Job done.

 

Liston for me is hard to peg. Skilled and powerful for sure, but his lack of competition and performances vs. Ali make me wonder.

Was he a skilled puncher in a land of none, feasting on smaller boxers with limited power or suspect chins? Yes. Could he have done more if he was born six years later? Hard to tell. I would lean toward yes. How good was Liston's chin? He cut and swelled too easily, but I think he took a decent punch. But then we have the Martin fight where he was out cold for 60 seconds, and Ali rocked him early in their first fight long before Liston thought about quitting. For whatever reason Liston wasn't skilled about cutting off the ring.

Wlad has a significant time speed edge here, but I don't think he could take much of what Liston has to offer, and the reverse could be almost equally true.

50.50

 

Williams busted up Liston's nose and created cuts in short fights. Lucky for Sonny that Williams had the chin of a Futbol player.

Outside of that, which puncher really tested Liston's chin? Yes, Liston was older but Martin was a decent puncher ( perhaps the 2nd best one who landed and tested Sonny's chin ) and we all saw what happened.

Go to the 7:20 mark.

[url]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=martin+vs+lisotn++ending&&view=detail&mid=8D6A7D9EF50341A64BA08D6A7D9EF50341A64BA0&rvsmid=9ED7558D3EB2196C7DE39ED7558D3EB2196C7DE3&FORM=VDQVAP[/url]

None of the guys Liston beat in the 50's or 60' could really test Wlad's chin, outside of Williams who wouldn't last long. It not like Liston meet puncher's in the class of Sanders, Brewster, Peter, Ibragomov, Haye, or Joshua, outside of two short matches with William's who only KO'd one top ten guy in his entire career.

 

I've not seen that fight, only read about it. Here, for example:

"The second fight, April 21, 1955 in St. Louis, agreed to by Marshall on three days' notice, followed much the same pattern but turned out differently. The referee stopped it in the sixth round when Marshall was knocked down for the fourth time. In the fifth round, however, Marshall slipped a Liston jab to the outside and crossed a right to Sonny's jaw, à la Max Schmeling when he knocked Louis down in 1936. The result was the same. Liston went down. Unlike Louis, he got up. Marshall foolishly tried for a knockout and was knocked down himself."

[url]https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/608210/the-four-who-baffled-liston[/url]

Granted Wlad doesn't like to trade but his MO has proven to be more successful than anything Liston ever managed. A decade of dominance speaks for itself. And while Wlad doesn't like to trade, he can if he has to:

Here Joshua knocks Klitschko down. Wladimir comes back and trades bombs with 250lb AJ in return:

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I don't dispute that Peter was as crude as heck but he was 245lb and hit like a truck. His power is not in dispute.

Liston didn't walk through cruiserweight Martin's punches.

Guess who is face down on the canvas in this photo:

[url]http://static.boxrec.com/thumb/4/4d/Leotis_Martin-Sonny_Liston_BE055250.jpg/375px-Leotis_Martin-Sonny_Liston_BE055250.jpg[/url]

Fact is Wlad's competition was significantly bigger and harder hitting than Liston's, and of the two, one faced and beat everybody he faced for over a decade AS CHAMPION and the other did not.

I think that their records speak for themselves.

 

Switch the t and the b around. Futbol player. You know that sport where offensive players can't use their hands and are either hurt of playing to be hurt once they land on the playing surface.

 

Sometimes the mere wind of a passing tackle is enough to cause agony!

 

flubtol.


for which the answer is, forever, dustin nichols.

 

Who said the knockdown never happened? Either way his jaw was broken and he lost to Marshall.

Who did Liston prove his durability against, only Cleveland Williams. As I mentioned Williams busted his nose and produced cuts in very short fights. If the fight had gone on longer, Liston would have a problem to overcome.

The next best puncher Liston fought that landed was Martin and he had him sleeping for 60 seconds.

Ali, a solid puncher, hardly a great one shook Liston up on film early in the first fight long before he decided to quit or tank it for the gamblers. And if the second fight Ali was real...

So based on the three men who likely landed the best that can qualify as solid or better hitters, Liston does not have a great chin. Good, maybe, but if Wlad lands flush he's in trouble.

I highly recommend the below article, The Four who baffled Sonny Liston

Marty Marshall, Burt Whitehurst, Eddie Machen and Jim McCarter bothered Liston? Yep. Two of these fights are on film.

[url]https://www.si.com/vault/1964/02/10/608210/the-four-who-baffled-liston[/url]