24 yr old Hatton vs 24 yr old Khan who do you have?

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I see you've been taking you're daily dose of ******. Rank Ricky lower because he's white??!?!?! Just when i thought the posts in the GF couldn't get any stupider you have to come along and smash the mould to smithereens.

 

Yawn.

 

Touche. Let me just highlight stupid for you:

Yup thats a whole heap of ******ex right there.

 

Am I now somehow senile? I recall what I said. ****, I only posted it about two seconds ago.

But you're right.... I stand corrected. :-(

 

Don't start getting lemon now.

 

Lemon... as in sour??

:smoke

 

I was leaning towards Hatton but Scurla had put doubt in my mind with his analysis.

 

Wahay!!! :thumbsup

 

What is something Floyd can do physically that Hatton couldn't do? Show me a video of Floyd's superior athleticism, not boxing skill, not technique, not timing, but actual athleticism.

 

Well timing has a LOT to do with reflexes (ala good athleticism)

 

If you think Floyd beat Ricky on speed you don't know **** about boxing.

That's timing and technique not speed. That's not Floyd's fastest punch, but it's a shot he was setting Hatton up for and you can see it in the earlier rounds. It's the same sort of shot that Donaire uses, the same sort of punch that Martinez uses, and that Hopkins uses, it's a setup where you bait the come forward fighter by backing up and then when they come forward you take a step back and you hook. It's an easy punch to defend against if you keep your hands up and you don't recklessly come forward like Hatton and Williams do, and it's a highly technical punch.


Basically what I'm saying and you can use the tapes to prove it, Hatton was a great athlete. He was stronger than Floyd in their fight, and about as fast as Floyd. He was actually a better inside fighter than Floyd at the time.

How did Floyd beat him? He didn't beat him with speed and power, he beat him with ring IQ, with timing, by laying traps and waiting for Hatton to fall for them. Hatton never learned to move his head or keep his hands up and Pacquiao laid the exact same trap and knocked him out even faster. Pacquiao on the other hand actually was faster and stronger than Hatton.

The Hatton fight leads me to believe Pacquiao has every advantage against Floyd because Pacquiao actually has a decent ring IQ along with the same sort of pressure style Hatton had. Pacquiao can also fight on the outside, something which Hatton wasn't so good at.

Hatton had all the athleticism and none of the ring IQ. I believe if Hatton were properly trained in the USA he would be a potential ATG. I think considering only Pacquiao and Mayweather managed to beat him even though he never learned the fundamentals of defense should prove how good he was.

 

Timing is learned. Yes it has to do with reflexes but we are talking about the most elite level here. Hatton has very good reflexes too but I'll give you an example of how he doesn't use them properly.

When Hatton attacked Floyd in the first two rounds his reflexes were actually better, and his footwork was actually better than Floyd's. It was looking similar to the Judah fight where Floyd was off balance and couldn't get his timing right.

Floyd discovered at some point that Hatton had shorter arms and that he had the reach advantage. This was when Floyd started using his superior ring IQ, not his speed, power or reflexes, to actually fight backing up, which is something I've never seen Hatton do.

So Floyd knew he couldn't overpower, or outspeed Hatton, he started to out think him, just like he did to Judah. He started laying out highly technical traps, using his reach advantage, and using his defensive footwork and head movement so that he could avoid being hit.

At some point Floyd started timing the Donaire/Martinez style hook. As Hatton only knows how to come forward and never learned how to set traps or do anything highly technical, when Hatton would over reach (this is the same mistake Khan makes, and Haye, and Williams), he leaves his chin out. All Mayweather did is what anyone who watched the tapes of Hatton would try, and that was to lay the trap by backing up so Hatton would come forward and when Hatton would leap forward he would simply take a step back and hook.

This movement does not take super human reflexes. Hatton is a pattern or rhythm fighter. Anybody watching him on TV or in the ring with him knows what hes going to do, but he's also very quick and very strong, and generally very good at that mauling style. So while Hatton was telegraphing his punches and leaving his chin out, all Floyd had to do all night was take a step back, wait for Hatton to miss, and make him pay.

And that is ultimately how Hatton got knocked out. Hatton jumped forward, and Floyd took a step back and hooked him.

The same thing happend against Pacquiao, Hatton jumped forward and Pacquiao KO'd him. I think if Hatton ever learned some technical skills, and ring IQ I think he could have been one of the best, probably would still be a champion at 140 right now as I don't think it would be easy for Bradley or Khan to beat Hatton if Hatton had technical skills.

And the only thing he needed to learn was to stop telegraphing his punches. He learned this after Mayweather trained him. And he learned feinting. What he never learned was head movement and defensive skills. He also never learned how to keep his hand up to cover his chin.

 

I think there is some truth to this analysis.

That said, I do think Floyd was the more gifted from a physical standpoint.

Hey, maybe Scruntlings will like me now!

 

Isn't the word mainstream??

And this from the knob always yammering on about Americans not being able to spell, write, ect.

Tool.

 

Fair enough, but you also have to consider that no matter how "learned" timing is, it still depends a hell of a lot on reflexes and being able to pull the trigger. Just look at Roy Jones as an example, his timing was amazing in his prime, second to none. Now he just see's the openings and can't do anything about them because his athleticism has decreased so dramatically.

That being said I guess it depends on which style you choose to employ too, that also plays a big part.