#3 ATG HW survey?

List could use Schmeling, though, if you're including Frazier.

 

Who is taking skin color into account when judging athletes? What is this, 1930?

 

It's true that boxing fans can be subtly racist when ranking fighters. Boxing has a very ugly "tribal," us-vs-them undertone that it never eliminated.

But even so, yeah, demands for quotas are just bizarre.

 

If we assume that Joe Louis might keep in it (as one of the first two), then I would choose (as mentioned before) Rocky Marciano, Jack Johnson, Gene Tunney, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, James J. Jeffries, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Jack Dempsey and Lennox Lewis maybe.

But John Lawrence Sullivan, Vitaly Klitschko and Riddick Bowe can be regarded there too.

 

His suggestions were 3 black fighters, Schmeling, removing Tommy Burns, and adding Corbett.

Overall, then, his recommended additions were in the same ratio that he complained about in your original list.

EDIT: At least in the first post. He seems to have added more stuff since in his reply post.

 

I think that usually the "tribal" aspect of it, at least in the modern world, is based on country. While I actually like Fury and think Wilder is kind of a dick who lacks sportsmanship, the 'murican side of me kind of wanted to see him knock Fury's British head off.

The way the HW division is going of late, just wait, and ATG list is going to become whiter over time.

 

It is apparently asit is pretended that the best basketball players (in the NBA) have to be black too. Because of the colour might be the Rays that high rated too, along with the American nationality.
If we go objective by the records, then can't be Frazier, Holyfield or Burns ranked in the top 3, but Tunney, Jeffries, Sullivan and Dempsey have a case, maybe also Vitaly Klitschko (rather than his brother, who has 250% as many defeats, but just 50% more wins) who was usual impressive, if win or lose.

Joshua a a balant racist, as he twittered about a "superior race" and also Hopkins made a racistical comment, when he said to Calzaghe never will breat him a white guy. If that would have been opposite, then had started a shitstorm which had forced an apology and possible the retirement (at least consideration of cancelling the contest).

 

how the hell does Sullivan have a case? fighting random drunks counts?

Vitaly and Wlad are both ATGs. Way up there, and man, Vitaly is a real rough night for any HW fighter who has ever drawn breath.

 

In greatness terms, Sullivan has a case just because of his historical impact on the sport.

In anything resembling head to head, lolno.

Wlad is already in the poll. Vitali, I agree with you is not top 3 on resume/legacy, but might rank higher head to head. (Except Lewis beat him.)

 

Sam is born in Frankfurt am Main and Turkish people are white too (if not Arabs). But he was at least amateur world champion in 1999.
Nothing less where until Louis the white boxers dominant in this weight class, apart of Johnson. These seemed to be forgotten.
And few of these picks for top 3 as Frazier and Burns seems ludicrious (the first rated Marciano higher than himself and Ali).

Also are around the half of all boxers are white; I don't think Pazfic islander have such a big part (even Parker can be recognized as white).
Though in Basketball might be 90% of the best of all time black (only Bird, Nowitzky and maybe Divac might be in the top 15). But in American Football for instance is it vice versa; there were most white of the legends, aside of Buba Smith, O. J. Simpson and maybe Russel Wilson.

So this should be more balanced and not so (Afro-) American biased, as Frazier and Holyfield have hardly a place in a top 10.

 

This last point is more legitimate.

However, the thread starter isn't Bernard Hopkins. At least here in the States, it is considered very inflammatory to accuse someone of racism, and you are usually expected to have good evidence for such an accusation.

 

Sullivan was the dominant boxer of his era, was frightened like a mix of Liston, Tyson and Foreman. He was for 10 years champion and only lost after a 3 years lay-off against an all time top 20 guy. So if you go for Wladimir Klitschko or Larry Holmes to longwite, then you ought to do it for him even the more (as his reign was technically longer).

Everbody can be just as good as his time let do it; he had with Mitchel and Killrain two which are arguable a time top sixty or so. His record is 38 - 1, that is better than Frazier and Lewis, not to mention Holyfield.

 

As you noted, Wills isn't on here either. Nor is Langford. Very few pre-1920s fighters make these lists, because the sport was considered in its infancy. Nevertheless, white fighters before the 1920s drew the Color Line, so their dominance can be questioned anyway.

Also, Frazier is at the same level as Schmeling. So if Frazier shouldn't be on here, neither should Max.

The bigger point, though, is that just because you rank fighters differently, you shouldn't immediately jump to accusing others of possible racism.

 

I didn't accuse this guy to be this (rather to make spam, as the same subject got often repeated here, with the allegation to must have Ali and Louis ahead of anyone else). I just pointed the selection of survey could be recognized as racistic motivated (influenced), as there were just 2 - 3 white one (I wouldn't count Burns as legitime choice, rather was supposed to fill it up and to make it easier to vote for someone else).

It should be regarded the early stage of boxing more, there coloured boxer in the world class were rare and also these from the (former) socialistical countries, which dominated partly after the borders opened or from around 2000.

 

I don't see how this is a meaningful distinction. On one hand, you deny saying the thread starter might be racist. On the other hand, you say that he might be racially motivated in selecting his top 3 heavyweights.