#3 ATG HW survey?

Well America is a spin-off of Britain. Even the Gargoyles and MacBeth went to Manhattan...

Anything can be only found once, therefore wasn't gone Edison into the history as the founder of the phone...
America was not fund by Christopher Columbus, but by Erik the Red around 1000 ano Domino.

I don't think Greco-Roman is original from France (other than French boxing, a kind of kickboxing).
Ninjitsu has actual a case for exsting since the Middle Age, as when came up the first ninjas, this is reasonable for me. But Taekwondo has very different rules, that what is used in South-Korea has very little relation to the original and shouldn't be Olympical (similar as it exist different kind of karate), as it is rather an American constructed form of it, with no natural moves (just targetting to make points).
There exist actual a tournament in Central Asia (I think in Kirgistan or Tadschikistan) in wrestling which occurs regulary since the mid of the 15. century, with the same rules and it might be now multi-national.

Anyway it is not necessary to have Sullivan as choice, but he would be more reasonable than Frazier and Burns (even Evander Holyfield and Wladimir Klitschko are questionable, for top 3 picks).

Dr. Vitaly Klitschko has a far better claim for being linear than his brother: he dominated Corrie Sanders (that destroyed Wladimir Klitschko in the previous fight), who was next to him the highest placed boxer in Heavyweight. He was also three time world champion and hold the most presticious WBC title.
But Wladimir Klitschko fought never the best opponent until maybe Powetkin (if his brother was official retird by that point). So if he is regarded as lineal champion, then has Usyk a claim for this rather than Fury (due to who retired several times, but Vitaly Klitschko once in January 2006).

By the way was Baer according to users here not a Juw, but I would overall rate Schmeling higher. Though who had more defeats than Wladimir Klitschko, but he was also longer inactiv before his comeback, due to millitary service and he has the better single wins. I also think Tyson is supposed to be over Lewis, mainly because of his first reign (especially if Holyfield get ranked above Bowe).

 

From the occasional bits of historical research I've seen, assassins did exist in feudal Japan, but none of the modern styles calling themselves "ninjutsu" have a connection with feudal history. Similar to the way other "invented traditions" appeared in the 19th century. There's a book on the general subject of invented traditions, actually, called The Invention of Tradition, which shows similar processes in a non-martial arts context. It's old enough that somebody has probably translated it into German and/or Romulan for you.

The 15th century tournament sounds very cool. If something like that existed in Britain for over a thousand years, then you'd have a good argument that British boxing came from Greek boxing. But I don't think any such tournament existed.

 

It possibly depends to which place you go; if you are in Iga or maybe some fort what is named perhaps like Eschida or similar, you might get something like pretty close to the orginal training by the instructors (I hope so at least, did some years ago a crowd funding project creating on Lichee, but nobody gave money for this). You can learn for instance to move on wooden made canvas with making no noises (or very little), to be prepared to go into houses (flats) of someone else, but that the persons there doesn't notice this.
Although the tradition of the Samurai might be more documented.

In that tournament narrowly didn't change the rules and only slightly the modus since around 1470. It is a kind of free style wrestling. But the nomads have their own tradition and names for it (maybe comparable with muay thai in Siam since many centuries).

By the way have Teofilo Stevenson and Felix Savon a strong case for being top 3 here too in my opinion.

 

I go back and forth between Lewis and Marciano. I have them at co-#3.

WTF with Burns? No Dempsey, Charles or Liston?

 

Another argument for Vitaly Klitschko (as puncher) is, he became world champion in less rounds than Mike Tyson.

 

"Romulan" you sly dog CT lol!
There is a woman who opened her home repeatedly when i did a Midtown arts festival/open studios who has been a "3D" sports artist, her late husband great portraits in that skylit space & at The Plaza-before vulgarian Trump displaced him-Mrs. Schloss had markings betwixt & above her brow that seemed like she was not just from the federation.
When I called her last month she said 3/22 she would be 100-that reminds me to wish her a belated Happy Birthday.

I am really surprised that Wlad has zero votes.
He should be dinged for frequent clinging, + his competition, + his Brother sometimes fought the best guys instead of him...But his sheer record of victories & dominance means at least he should get near as many votes as Holmes or Lewis (my vote).


Oh America was visited by various groups before permanent settlements arrived via the Europeans.
But it was "[url]discovered[/url]" at least 15,000 years ago.
And people lived all around North & South America within the next several thousand years.
The land was possibly discovered & occupied 30,000 years ago.

There is no real scientific debate that Native Americans first came here & lived all over North & South America waaaaay before anybody else even briefly alighted here.

 

Louis got obliterated in his prime too, as did other ATG heavies you probably place in front of Tyson.

That's what stands out to me.

 

The topic always ends up razor thin between Holmes and Lewis either way and there's usually daylight to the next guy. Lewis and Holmes are the standout #3 and #4 in here. It's a very solid top 4.

 

Don't really understand this. But Louis more than paid the compliment back to Schmeling and went on to have the longest reign of any weight class. That's why he is way ahead of Tyson. What he actually did is what matters, not some fantasy match-up BS. That was what my response to White Bomber was about in case you missed it.

 

What's your criteria?'

 

For real, whats the case of Louis over Holmes?

Louis

- first loss as a fresh fighter
- won the rematch as the favorite
- 27 title fight wins
- bum of the month club
- some fights close
- no senior career
- fought until 37

Holmes

- first loss as an aging fighter
- won the rematch (Spinks) as the underdog
- 23 title fight wins
- no bum of the month club
- some fights close
- had a senior career
- fought until 52

--> Larry is my #2

 

Accomplishment in their era. Marciano was undefeated with six wins over four greats. Lewis beat every fighter he shared a ring with, and not only got some greats on the resume, but just a lot of big, strong heavies who could bang.

 

Very shocked Foreman doesn't have more votes. He's just as deserving imo

 

No big argument from me Swag.

 

No bum of the month club for Holmes? He had a lot of weak defences. But more importantly he never defended against the nr 1 challenger. In the later part of his reign hardly anyone top 5. Louis, on the other hand, defended against his nr 1 plenty of times. His last four defences were all against the nr 1 ranked, for instance.