30 for 30, Ali-Holmes EPSN documentary.

i am not a fan of ali but this is very sad to watch, in fact to sad to watch more than twice. only watched it a second time as could not believe it the first time round

 

Sad stuff.

 

good post

 

Lots of good footage ... interesting doc ... what is left out is that Ali was a grown man and chose to make the fight ... he was not a babbling idiot ... he insisted on making the fight and got beat, plain and simple.

 

yeah the footage is amazing. the bit of holmes shadowboxing back in 1974 and ali drumming a bag in the background is brilliant.

but mate, when ali is walking round camp he doesn't seem all there.....maybe it was choice footage, maybe he was playing to the cams, probably neither, that was just ali when he was older. onset of parkinsons or not. but that isnt ali of 74 or even 76

 

Ali is hurting. His body is long past it, and Parkinsons is probably starting to impact him.

His pride wouldn't allow him to stay away. Any sane individual knew this was a mismatch.

Add the Thyrolar? Larry could have probably killed him had he been so inclined.

 

was it? i dont remember them saying he was a child who didnt want to fight?

do wish theyd asked larry why he didnt just coast make it a totally boring fight and just won with jabs and light punches though

 

Yeah Ali was an absolute wreck at that point. I think his condition there illustrates all the problems his approach to sparring posed for his health. People often talk about the damaging effects of taking all the punches upside the head from Holmes, and Witherspoon and the other sparring partners.

But taking all those free shots to the gut and the ribs and the kidneys isn't good for you either. He thought he was toughening himself up-maybe he was I don't know-but he only made things worse for himself by that point.

Not a huge admirer of Ali but this is so hard to watch.

 

It's amazing the fight was even made.

 

And it's amazing how 38 was viewed as being ancient back then, but today, 38 is no big deal, at least not in the heavyweight division. But regardless of Ali's age, he was impaired. How he passed the physicals and became sanctioned to fight is a mystery.

 

All that nonsense about Larry 'carrying' him, is just that, nonsense!

He was trying to knock him out, mainly on the advise of his corner.

Ali had one of the greatest whiskers in the history of boxing. The man had parkinsons and was ravaged by misdiagnosed, thyroid pills and still didn't kiss the canvas for 10 rounds. Incredible!

 

Lot's of shady stuff went on behind the scenes. It was in too many peoples interest that he fought again.

The age just depends on the individual, not the times. Many more fighters fought at a good level, at an advanced age back in the day then they do now.

 

Like entering a time machine!

So much footage I had never seen; everyone so young.

Nobody in my house cared about the fight; going out late at night to seek out a closed-circuit showing out of the question, my young heart could only fear--and hope--for Ali the night of Oct. 2, 1980.

The 10 o'clock news in Chicago broadcast from a theater showing the fight. A young chap kept the faith, rapping: "ALI's got it up here!", tapping his head. "Holmes is gonna be down there!", pointing to the ground.

Having read everything on the fight I could get my hands on the weeks prior--and even halfheartedly predicting an Ali win on my high school English journal for the day--I went to bed.

The radio was on the next morning as we rose and made our beds. The news soon came on and THERE IT WAS, the result of last night's fight in Las Vegas: Larry Holmes, the winner by TKO over Ali in the 11th.

My first impression was it seemed an honorable enough result. I imagined Ali too tired to go on, all the enthusiasm and dreams depleted against his fearsome foe. But reading the paper later that day (the Sun-Times front page ran Holmes' image, center-ring, arms raised, smiling serenely, a bewildered-looking Ali in the background sitting on his stool) and watching the news that evening, I quickly understood one thing: something was wrong with Ali.

Skewer him if you must, but Pacheco put his money where his mouth was, told the truth and dropped out of the circus. I don't buy Angelo's nor anyone else's bull about why they didn't raise their voice and not doing their utmost to try to stop the charade.

Where was Herbert Muhammad, the only guy Ali would have heeded?! Veronica, Bundini, Kilroy, Rahman, Blood, no one went the extra mile trying to get the truth into that thick skull of Ali's: IT'S OVER!!! THERE'S IS ABSOLUTELY NO TOPPING THE DENOUEMENT IN THE SUPERDOME!!! YOU'RE THE CHAMP!!! YOU'RE ALI!!! YOU'VE GOT YOUR HEALTH!!!COME TO YOUR SENSES!!! IT'S OVER!!!

"A friend is someone who will tell you the truth." Ali was friendless and he deluded himself into disaster. The thyroid condition diagnosis by Dr. Williams! Outrageous! On Thyrolar, which Ali stupidly took like M&Ms, Ali was a walking time bomb: a fighter in the ring under Thyrolar has his heart rate accelerate; his metabolism changes; his muscles are affected because both muscle tissue and fat are burning off. He can't sweat; he's weakened by loss of water. Ali could have had a heart attack, a stroke, or rampant bleeding in the head. THANK GOD nothing worse happened that night.

This is a tragedy that should not be forgotten; how much the punishment dealt by the champion sent Ali more quickly on his merry way to Parkinson's Syndrome no one can say, but it is fair to term it another big nail in the coffin.

Thank God the Champ is still with us; I was very touched by the written report of his struggling to his feet at Joe Frazier's funeral to applaud vigorously for his old foe one last time. It is a mark of middle age when, suddenly, your heroes are wrinkled, faltering, bumbling, stumbling, dying men. In my mind's eye, Ali is clapping for Frazier, for a second again that young idealist giving it up for his old, extremist mentor Elijah Muhammad.

He has had 30 years on this earth, which I'm sure he has enjoyed. I wish him only long life, health and happiness. But, with Pacheco, I can say: it could have been a lot different.