Seeds 1. Sonny Liston 2. Rocky Marciano 3. Joe Louis 4. Cassius Clay 5. Jersey Joe Walcott 6. Ezzard Charles 7. Floyd Patterson 8. Archie Moore 9. Elmer Ray 10. Harold Johnson 11. Ernie Terrell 12. Zora Folley 13. Eddie Machen 14. Cleveland Williams 15. Clarence Henry 16. Jimmy Bivins 17 Bob Baker 18 Nino Valdes 19 Rex Layne 20 Lee Q Murray 21 Hurricane Jackson 22 Doug Jones 23 Henry Cooper 24 roland Lastarza 25 Joe Baksi 26 Bruce Woodcokk 27 John Holman 28 Mike DeJohn 29 Roy Harris 30 Willie Pastrano 31 Bob Cleroux 32. Turkey Thompson Round 1 Results Sonny Liston TKO 4 Turkey Thompson Rocky Marciano KO 8 Bob Cleroux Joe Louis KO 11 Willie Pastrano Cassius Clay TKO 6 Roy Roy Harris Jersey Joe Walcott W 15 UD Mike Dejohn Ezzard Charles TKO 13 John Holman Floyd Patterson KO 5 Bruce Woodcokk Archie Moore TKO 9 Joe Baksi Elmer Ray W 15 UD Roland Lastarza Harold Johnson W 15 UD Henry Cooper Ernie Terell W 15 UD Doug Jones Zora Folley W 15 UD Hurricane Jackson Eddie Machen W 15 Split Lee Q Murray Cleveland Williams TKO 5 Rex Layne Nino Valdes W 15 Maj Clarence Henry Jimmy Bivins W 15 Split Bob Baker ROUND 2 Matchups VOTE Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray VOTE
Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen-could live with people picking Machen Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell-COULD BE AN UPSET HERE. Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray
I got the guy on the left in all of them. Best prospect of an upset, would be Elmer Ray against Archie Moore.
ROUND 2 Matchups VOTE Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins >>Liston Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes >>Marciano Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams >> Louis Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen >>Clay Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley>>Walcott Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell >>a close one. Terrell SD Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson >>Patterson Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray >>Ray
ROUND 2 Matchups VOTE Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins - Liston Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes - Marciano Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams - This is not the Louis of '38, but I will still go with him. Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen - Ali is my #1 of all time, but he was a little too green in '63 against a prime Machen of the late '50s. I will go for the upset here and pick Machen. Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley - Walcott Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell - Charles Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson - Patterson Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray - Moore
ROUND 2 Matchups VOTE Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray
Okay. Charles lost to Valdes, Ray and Bivins. All three men could jab and Valdes and Ray had a clear size edge. Terrell is under rated for those who have only see him vs. Ali. It was Ali at his very best, and Terrell was thumbed in the eye in round one, which gave him problems. In other fights Terrell is much faster and more accurate. Like the others fighters I mentioned who defeated Charles, Terrell had a good jab, and knew how to use his length. On the inside Terrell had octopus like arms to initiate and keep a clinch. Terrell's record vs. smaller men who could box well is excellent as he defeated Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, Bob Foster, and Zora Folley. Thats a pretty good group. Charles did not hit significantly harder than these four. Besides Ernie's chin was very good, so a TKO win for Charles to me is unlikely. I see Terrell out landing Charles on the outside and tying him up on the inside more often than not. Charles would have to make the fight, but I think he lands less and loses the decision. That is my reasoning.
That is good reasoning fair enough My only issue is we are taking a prime charles here 1946-1951. The 53 version who fought Valdes was past his physical prime as evident by the slower handspeed and reflexes compared to his fight with valentino in 49. The Bivins fight in 1942 happened before Charles entered the war. Charles himself in his biography he came out of the army bigger stronger a better fighter. Charles beat bivins 4 times in rematches The Ray loss is valid, except Ray didn't fight like terrell , Ray was a swarmer. He didn't utilize a long jab from the outsidd Charles knocked Ray out in the rematch
Q, I just see Terrell having the right stuff to win vs. smaller boxers without a lot of power. While Charles might have been a bit past it, I view Nino as a bit of a gun shy jabber type. Something like Terrell. Was Ray a boxer puncher type or an all out attack type like Tyson? If you out point Walcott and Charles without knocking them down or out, I say it was more skills than power. I view Ray as a boxer type who tried to finish his man when he was hurt. Style wise, Ray's better off as a boxer puncher than attacker type because his chin wasn't the best. Maybe Klompton knows.
For this round, I will use the post-prime version of Louis, and the Pre-Prime version of Ali, while punching it in to the Title Fight Simulator...I used prime for everyone in the first round, but I don't think it really would have changed any of the first round results. Sonny Liston vs Jimmy Bivins....Liston 15 round UD (ran this 4 times before Sonny won by KO in the 9th, Bivins even won one by TKO) Rocky Marciano vs Nino Valdes...Marciano TKO 7...Vales down multiple time Joe Louis vs Cleveland Williams...Joe Louis KO 6, came after a big round 5 for Williams. Cassius Clay vs Eddie Machen...Clay KO 12 Jersey Joe Walcott vs Zora Folley,,,Wlacott 15 UD Ezzard Charles vs Ernie Terrell....Charles KO 10 Floyd Patterson vs Harold Johnson....first run a draw...second run SD Patterson...third a SD for Johnson...4th and final run (and my vote) had it Floyd Patterson by UD (1, 2, and 3 points) Archie Moore vs Elmer Ray...Another close one Moore by SD...2nd time Moore by KO in the 12th...
