36-yo Luis Ortiz v. 33-yo Ezzard Charles or 38-yo Archie Moore?

Me too,I think Ortiz is hugely overated.

 

The way I see it he's either hugely over rated or he's already deep into his decline.

I think the Jennings fight is as good as it will ever get for him now. He looked incredibly slow against Scott and he won the fight only due to how negative Scott was.

I honestly don't see right now how he's above the level of the likes of Pulev or Takam, maybe not even above the level of Chisora or Whyte.

He might prove me wrong and destroy Joshua but I think we've already seen the best of him.

 

I agree,I think Joshua takes him out.

 

I think he earnt his hype by beating Jennings and Thompson but all his momentum is now lost and I reckon he's gonna go down as a never was.

 

I think the 2007-2008 versions of Tony Thompson and Malik Scott might have beaten Ortiz.

 

I'm not so sure a 38 year old Moore would get through a 2007 Thompson and Scott, not both in succession anyway.

 

I don't see why not, he beat Valdesx2 ,Johnson, and Baker.

 

Their size would have given him some problems.

 

Thompson gets underratted. He was better than Baker and Valdez and quite a bit bigger. Johnson wasn't a heavyweight.

Scott has turned in two non-performance against bigger men who could crack. He also lost competitively against Chisora in what may have been a quit job or genuine mix-up. Other than that, he's always been up on the cards. You'd think Moore would get to him but Scott never had any problems with a small fighter. He was also much better around the time of the Glazkov fight. So if he gets his jab going nicely it could mean problems for Moore.

 

Who exactly did Thompson beat to say he was better than Baker and Valdes?
Johnson beat :
Machen
Satterfield
Moore
King
Valdes
Charles
Slade
Henry
Whitehurst
Bethea
How much more of the heavyweight does he have to be?

 

Johnson is nearly irrelevant to the discussion. Moore beating a great small man has little to do with beating a pretty good big man.

Valdez was sloppy and lost most of his big fights. If I remember correctly, he lost about a third of his fights and at no point was consistent. I haven't followed Baker much but he seems similar.

Thompson was the best American heavyweight for a time. He handled a peak Luan Krasniqi (underrated outside of Europe due to lack of coverage) and gave a peak Wlad one his toughest fights. In his prime, he never lost except to Wlad. He was largely avoided in his prime and came back past peak to go 4-0 against Price and Solis as an underdog.

 

The best American ? Who else was there? Price OMG!

 

Valdes had a very similar style to Ortiz.
Moore did pretty good against him at that age.

 

Yes he did.

 

Nino did not. He was smaller and sloppier. Ortiz understands range. Valdez never did. Hence, one man hasn't been beaten and the other lost one third of his fights. It's almost a racist comparison.

I hear one is even a southpaw.