39 year old Lara vs 40 year old GGG - WBA MW Unification

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by shadow111, May 29, 2022.


Who would win in a 160-lb (WBA) Unification

  1. GGG by KO

    43 vote(s)
    81.1%
  2. GGG by Decision

    7 vote(s)
    13.2%
  3. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Lara by Decision

    2 vote(s)
    3.8%
  5. Lara by KO

    1 vote(s)
    1.9%
  1. m.s.

    m.s. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Your getting carried away with this devastating loss to Canelo talk.If GGG dont KO Canelo he loses. What really matters is the court of public opinion. In Canelo fights that is all that matters because his judges are useless, as seen in the Bivol debacle.
     
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  2. fistsof steel

    fistsof steel Boxing Addict Full Member

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  3. Presenting-Fight-Film

    Presenting-Fight-Film Active Member Full Member

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    Lara is too stationary right now and his chin always been suspect. GGG by mid KO
     
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  4. m.s.

    m.s. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Public opinion is all that matters, it's been proven beyond any doubt. Canelo's judges have zero credibility. If they give the decision to GGG whether he wins or not, they will gain credibility.
     
  5. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

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    I think any GGG beats Lara. Stylistically. Lara couldn't keep GGG off him.
     
  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When have I ever not praised GGG for being tough and a stiff test for Canelo? Ask @BCS8 there's never been a time where I acted like GGG was easy work for Canelo or wouldn't be in for a war if they ever fought again. On the other hand, many others have acted like Canelo would have an easier time beating GGG, by played the age card or whatever excuse you wanna come up with. You act like this is some new agenda from me to talk GGG up so if Canelo beats him he gets more credit. I have been very consistent for many years in how highly I rate GGG and how even at 40, he's arguably still the toughest fight for Canelo. It's you who sounds like someone has an agenda. By saying that if Canelo wins, he shouldn't get any credit because GGG is 40, and that's even if you accept the verdict in the event that Canelo wins another close decision that you won't.

    I can see what you and your kind are up to and have been up to ever since Canelo walked through fire 4 years ago and upset GGG. You never gave Canelo credit for that win, and if he beats him again, you won't give him credit agian. You think that's better than what I'm doing, which is giving GGG his props for how good he still is? I don't use age as an excuse, I don't refuse to accept judges decisions and discredit wins for not liking a result. OK GGG is every bit as tough and as good as he was 4-5 years ago. Maybe he's slowed down a tad, but arguably so has Canelo. 4-5 years ago people were using age as an excuse for GGG. Was age a problem for 39 year old Marquez against Pacquiao? Was age a problem for 40 year old Pacquiao against Thurman? Great fighters overcome age and win big fights against prime rivals. If GGG is as great as you and others think he is, if he is better than Canelo as fighter, then he should be able to beat Canelo in September. PERIOD.

    If he can't, Canelo will always be seen as better, no matter how much you cry about age or the judges, that's just the facts jack! You can't go winless in 3 fights against your rival and argue that you're better. That just doesn't work. GGG has to win or else Canelo is better. I know how tough this fight will be for Canelo, and for GGG of course, I'm not delusional like many on this board to think that this is an easy fight for Canelo just because GGG is 40. 40 year old GGG is a lot like 35 year old GGG or 36 year old GGG. He's not a reduced, easier to beat fighter like you would have us believe, so that if Canelo wins you can say "ahh well the win means nothing because GGG was 40". The trilogy means everything as it pertains to the Canelo GGG rivalry. And no amount of spin, excuse making or low balling GGG because he's 40 will change that.
     
  7. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo doesn't have judges, excuse-maker. GGG is winless against Canelo in 2 attempts because Canelo was better both times. If Canelo beats GGG in September, he's better than GGG head-to-head. If GGG beats Canelo by decision, it's Even Stevens. If GGG KO's Canelo, then you can say GGG is better. That's how it works in boxing. Public opinion is not something concrete. It's full of bias and opinions are shaped by who you are rooting for. Results matter, if you lose, you lose. If you win, you win. There's no moral victories in boxing because a bunch of delusional fans of a fighter get together on a message board and protest a result.

    What's been proven beyond any doubt is the fact that no matter what happens, if GGG does not win, you'll make excuses, you'll cry about the judges, you'll carry on about how GGG is too old. The fact is that before Canelo stepped up to GGG and beat him, something that you and your kind said was impossible and would never happen, GGG was expected to destroy Canelo. That never happened. And you've been running from your bold predictions ever since not being able to accept what Canelo did to your hero. Now GGG has one last chance for redemption. If you want to be able to say GGG was ever better than Canelo, he has to beat Canelo this time, otherwise you have no argument.
     
  8. m.s.

    m.s. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wrong, GGG will be better regardless of what happens because he is rightful winner outside the corruption. He now has a 1/100 chance because he is 40, he needs a KO to win. The only hope of getting a decision is a shut out, but maybe not then either. The proof is in the Bivol score cards. The only true justice would be if GGG loses 9 - 3 but gets a unanimous decision then retires, oh and then says Canelo don't deserve a rematch because because he beat him 3 times already.
     
  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Another thing this poll proves, is that this forum has an overwhelming amount of support for GGG. Now I'd probably favor GGG myself, especially given Lara's more flat footed approach these days, but the fact that over 90% of voters are picking GGG, and nearly 85% are picking GGG to KO Lara, a guy who's never been stopped before, says a lot about how highly this forum rates GGG. But that's at odds with the idea that GGG is much easier for Canelo to beat now that he's 40 years old. If GGG is good enough to KO Lara, which nearly 85% of this poll says he would, something that no one's ever been able to do to Lara, then GGG even at 40 is still believed to be a very dangerous puncher. That means that if Canelo beats him, he'd have done something extraordinary.

    Lara even at 39, even as a more flat footed fighter these days, is still very capable of outpointing 40 year old GGG, or losing a close decision, but not being stopped. So the fact that such a high % are picking GGG to win by KO against a guy who's never been stopped says a lot about this forum and how highly they rate GGG. So when people point to how 80%-90% of polls said GGG beat Canelo the first time, those %s are no different to what people think 40 year old GGG would do to 39 year old Lara. And if GGG fights Lara, and loses a close decision, they'll claim it was a robbery. And this is coming from somebody who favors GGG in this fight and thinks he can stop Lara. But if this forum were fair and balaced, I would expect a much more competitive poll than this given that Lara is still very capable of beating GGG.

    I mean people literally have argued that GGG is "washed up" at this point and that Canelo has aged him, but yet 90%+ are picking him to beat Lara and 85% are picking him to be the first man to stop Lara. This just doesn't add up. The one-sidedness of this poll should put the idea that GGG is in decline or has declined significantly over the last 4-5 years to rest. Because the fact is, many of the same people who believed that GGG was robbed against Canelo also believed that Lara was robbed against Canelo as well. And that was a younger closer-to-his-prime Lara supposedly than the GGG who fought Canelo. So for this many people to overwhelmingly favor GGG over Lara today, that suggests that people think that Lara is further past it than GGG is and that GGG has more left.
     
  10. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    LOL do you have any idea how absurd it sounds that you would still claim GGG is better even if he fails to beat Canelo for a 3rd time. If Canelo beats him again, especially if Canelo hurts GGG or beats him more convincingly this time than he did 4 years ago, that you would still argue GGG is better, if that isn't rampant fanboyism I don't know what is. Beyond the head-to-head superiority that would prove, Canelo has a far better resume of better wins outside of their multiple head-to-head encounters. Canelo has a far better overall body of work than GGG. You trying to reframe this trilogy to essentially be meaningless in your mind as it pertains to who's better when Canelo already has the edge in both head-to-head and in terms of overall resume, accomplishments, etc tells us everything we need to know.

    You're clearly in a state of complete and utter delusion, and it's sad. I feel sorry for you. In your mind, if GGG wins, the win matters, but if he loses, it doesn't and you make excuses about it till the end of time. This is no way to exist in the world of boxing. I hate to break it to you, but the trilogy is very meaningful. It will determine who is unequivocally better. And frankly, GGG would have to win impressively to have a good argument. If GGG wins a close decision, there's still an argument that Canelo is better because then the head-to-head would be even and Canelo would still have the better resume and body of work. In boxing, grudges are settled in the ring. Rivalries are put to the test, in the ring. What happens in the ring and what is decided in the ring determines legacies and fighter superiority. That's the way it has always been and always will be.
     
  11. m.s.

    m.s. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The powers that be really dont want Canelo to lose this fight vs GGG. They didn't want him to lose before obviously, but this time it's even worse, because Canelo just lost to Bivol. Canelo's reputation for having corrupt judges is well earned. Canelo's name is synonymous with corrupt judging. I wish it wasn't so because I want to see a fair result with the decisions. Canelo did this to himself and if he wins by robbery again, it may threaten to ruin his legacy.
     
  12. m.s.

    m.s. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    According to you the corrupt judges decide the legacy. The fights don't line up with the judging. Bivol wasn't a 2 point loss for Canelo. There is a massive problem with the Canelo judges, even worse than most of us thought.
     
  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    I wrote this on here in 2015, so 7 years ago. It's not my most well written diatribe, but... it's decent enough. Well, none of my thoughts have changed. GGG violently KO's any version of Lara.


    Okay I'll get the initial issues out of the way first, Lara is represented by Haymon, Gennady Golovkin works with HBO, HBO do not do business with Haymon, therefore the Golovkin Vs. Lara match will not get made. In all likelihood Lara doesn't want it to get made either. He knows full well what the political climate between Haymon and HBO is like, and based on his inability to draw an audience due to his at times incredibly dull style, they will not go out of their way to thaw relations with Al Haymon who's actively been attempting to undermine and crush HBO for years now, just to make a PPV that absolutely no one will buy, it doesn't make economic sense for HBO pursue long arduous negotiations that will ultimately grind to a halt and not make them a dime in revenue, we're not talking about Money Vs. Pac here. It would be a waste of their time. But Lara knows this very well and he's using GGG's name and the idea that GGG is somehow scared of him to build up this false image of a terrifying uber skilled boogieman that everyone is terrified to face and that everyone is ducking, for his own economic well being, he wants in the worst way to have the aura of a badass about him, he wants the false bragging rights. And if any of you don't realize that, then his manipulation of the situation and you is working just the way he wanted it too.


    Now on to the hypothetical match itself. Lara would most likely end up being brutally knocked out cold by Golovkin and here is why.

    Lara's career in reality is a lot of smoke and mirrors, many of his matches have been incredibly close affairs frequently against opponents whose lack of skill should not have posed such a master of the sweet science as himself the slightest problem, but they do. Why is that, its because Lara is not nearly as good as he tries to sell himself as, or many of you seem to believe him to be.

    Let's start with the Williams Robbery. Lara probably should have won the decision in that match, however Paul threw over 1000 punches in that match and only landed a paltry 200, but Lara only landed 24 more, with a grand total of 224. So to many judges, you could see how someone who is throwing such a ridiculously high number of punches and landing almost the same amount, may nick a few more rounds due to the appearance of outworking the more accurate Lara. I scored the match for Lara, but it wasn't the landslide everyone makes it out to be. His strategy wasn't brilliant in the least, he knew by studying Williams losses that he's open to an absurd amount of lefts usually with no adjustment, he followed the game plan laid out by Quintana and Martinez before him.

    The Molina fight should be considered a loss, not even a MD draw, he was smothered, mugged and outworked by a fighter that K9 Bundrage was smart enough to come up with a strategy to beat, yet Lara couldn't make the needed adjustments. Molina being a rhythm breaker relies on fighters being predictable and usually not adjusting and sticking with their predictable course of action to work his unpleasant to watch magic, K9 used his awkward incredibly unpredictable style to his advantage, it's hard to break an off kilter rhythm like his, yet Lara looked pretty bad and let Molina outsmart him, shouldn't Lara have figured out what to do instead of the same thing over and over again that clearly wasn't working, not that intelligent of the master boxer was it?

    On to Vanes, the match was a draw at the time of the cut, however it did appear that Lara was taking control of the match at the time of the stoppage. But Vanes while good enough to expose a Charlo and the less than impressive Willie Nelson, he was made to look amateurish against Andrade who most wouldn't rate above Lara, all the while he gave Lara troubles by out thinking him in their very close match, that shouldn't have even been close for such an accomplished talent like Lara the Great.

    But he did school Trout didn't he? Something that Canelo and Cotto couldn't accomplish, so that makes him better than them right?....wrong. It was nothing more than a terrible style clash. Austin is a southpaw and Lara is a southpaw, neither one of the looked great but because Trout was just a little bit slower Lara always managed to get off first and won the match in dull mind numbingly tedious fashion, Trout allowed it to be a chess match and played into Lara's hands and it paid off that time.

    The Canelo match was close and Lara did very well, landing the cleaner and effective counters early in the match, that is until Canelo started walking through those counters and got to Lara's body a few times landing vicious body shots and Lara jumped on his bike and hauled ass like he was in a Tour De France time trial. He lost the fight because he didn't like the way Canelo's body shots felt and ran like hell to avoid the pain, the judges didn't like that..... it's as simple as that. That being said, I scored it for Lara.

    But on to the real problem he'll face if he ever fought Gennady Golovkin. That would be the Alfredo Angulo match, the reality is Perro Angulo is an incredibly one dimensional fighter who is the epitome of a mindless face first plodder, he walked after Lara and threw punches, most of them were slipped and a few got through and landed, Perro doesn't know how to cut of the ring, so he chased him, yet even with his limited skills he was able to trap Erislandy along the ropes and pound him to the body with Left Hooks, and what happened when he landed that left hook of his, Lara cringed and involuntarily dropped his right hand and boom down goes Lara from a picture perfect left hook to the chin. And for that very reason GGG would brutally KO Lara.


    And for all of the people who don't seem to realize the skill level of Gennady Golovkin let me explain it to you. Skillwise he's as an offensive fighter more well rounded and better than Lara is as a defensive fighter, Lara can slip punches and counter with his straight left or right jab and run. Gennady is far more complex than Lara, for all the talk about being fans of the sweet science, how is it that many of his detractors seem to miss all of his subtleties, his slight head movements just enough to roll with punches or slip them in close is similar to Chocolatito, his shifting which is essentially through shifting the weight distribution and forward momentum, it enhances the ability to sit down on your punches while moving, in close or while inside fighting. He's a very accurate counter punching, taking a half step back, parries and subtle head movements to take the steam off or avoid clean shots, usually followed by countering with his devastating jab. His stiff brutal jab that is frequently used to set up his even more brutal power punches, his brilliant punch placement and punch selection, his ability find or make openings, and his mastery of most types of punches, his brutal twisting shots to the ribs, his ability to cut the off the ring which is brilliant unlike Angulo he never follows, his footwork gets him in position right where he wants to be at all times terrifying opponents because they cannot escape him no matter what they do, he is the epitome of an effective aggressor, his ability to set traps, his constant pressure which keeps his opponents in a paralyzing state of paranoia, that has them second guessing their every move out of fear they'll run into something big. Gennady Golovkin is many levels above the limited Lara in the skill department, and if they ever fought GGG would make what Angulo did to him look like child's play. GGG also feasts more easily on counter punchers than most styles. His pressure and cutting off of the ring got him in position to repeatedly nail and drop Willie Monroe Jr, a very skilled counter puncher, and what happened after than, Willie realize with his retreating countering style he didn't stand a chance in hell of winning and instead chose to man up and slug it out with him like a man.....which failed as well.

    Oh and that left hook to the ribs followed by the left hook to the head that worked for Angulo, GGG loves doing that.:deal Only difference is Lara wouldn't get up this time without smelling salts.

    Lara did school Ishe and Delvin you can always cling to that if it makes you feel better.:lol:
     
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  14. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

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    1. My kind?

    2. I had Canelo winning the 2nd fight and gave him credit
    Do your research first before talking

    3. I'm not that much of a GGG fan

    Check my post history

    Again do your research before making assumptions
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2022
  15. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For GGG’s next move at 160, Lara is probably still a more credible challenger than Munguia. But the latter brings money and audience so that’s what we’ll get.