40 years ago today: "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler vs. Roberto "Hands of Stone" Durán Samaniego

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Nov 10, 2023.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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  2. Braindamage

    Braindamage Baby Face Beast Full Member

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    I need to make th8s my ringtone. LOL
     
  3. Dannymita

    Dannymita Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I remember Duran doing alright but I didn't think hagler needed the late rounds to pip him and Roberto is my favorite of the 4 kingsso that says it all...might give it a rewatch and see if my scores changed
     
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  4. ipswich express

    ipswich express Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    FWIW I got a nice reply message from Stan Christodoulou. Stan said it was an honour to referee these two legends and that the cover of the latest digital Ring Magazine brought back tremendous memories. One of Boxing's good guys, I first met him when he reffed Browne v Chagaev. My old man ended up penning his memoirs.
     
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  5. The G-Man

    The G-Man I'm more of a vet. banned Full Member

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    He has a book out?
     
  6. ipswich express

    ipswich express Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
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  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I guess it's obvious for whom the board has a softer spot, surprising nobody... :sisi1

    Several paragraph long OP a bit more complimentary of Hagler: two likes.
    Throwaway single sentence instead extolling Durán: thirteen.

    MMH is generally quite fondly regarded on here, in both General & Classic, but he isn't loved with the same maniacal ardor as a Durán or perhaps the most cult-like figure in internet boxing fan history, Morales. (case in point, polls on the Leonard fight when they crop up now and then often have more than half of respondents espousing the incorect view that SRL deservedly won :sisi1)
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Morales is an unassuming man's man, but so was Hagler. From a personality standpoint it's almost impossible to not like the Morales. Who wouldn't want to hangout with Morales? And from a strictly boxing point of view, he was undeniably entertaining in the ring, although not quite as artistic a pugilist as his archrival MAB. What he lacked in ring artistry he made up for with grit and machismo that endeared him to fans. Not surprising he has a passionate cult following.
     
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  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I am doomed to ever be the contrarian...I preferred MAB to Morales, Hagler to all the other 4 kings, Quartey to Vargas/SSM/Tito/DLH, JMM to Pac, Kessler to Calzaghe, Louis to Ali, etc.

    Durán's enduring popularity is a bit surprising - not for want of genius and entertaining savagery in the ring, as he possessed both in spades - but he wasn't the nicest dude in the world, and you'd figure the spectre of "no mas" would do more harm to his standing in the usually rather unforgiving boxing fandom, but he gets a LOT of latitude.
     
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  10. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Personality wise? Duran's an ass. Yea, let's just tell the truth. Still (on his best day) the best fighter I've seen on film.
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Marvin Nathaniel Hagler vs. Roberto Durán Samaniego, 15 rounds @ middleweight

    Part I/II

    Round 1

    Ding! "Big fight feel", before that was even a figure of speech. Caesar's Palace is ready. Durán is first to shoot off a jab, but locating Hagler with it proves tricky - as expected. Hagler is first to score cleanly with his jab. Durán puts up window dressing jabs to effectively Trojan horse in some body shots. Ref warns Durán to keep 'em up. Hagler with a few more southpaw jabs, and some cuffing right hooks off it. Durán is mixing some jab feints pulled halfway to payload with some actually snapped out all the way, gauging Hagler's responses. Hagler smacking the furthest-flung attempts down with his right palm while maintaining distance with his feet.

    10-9 Hagler, close

    (very evenly split round on EyeOnTheRing - many tabulating for Hagler, many for Durán, and quite a few 10-10 drawn cards)



    Round 2

    Durán is crossing his arms to screen out some long Hagler pokes at the chest. Hard wrecking ball right by Durán slamming in just on the belt line. Ref seemed to feel it was low and gives a warning, eh, not sure about that. It was on the lettering, and Hagler's trunks are high-ish. Good infighting, Hagler separates with a knife-edge uppercut. Durán bops him atop the head with a tomahawk right but Hagler is able to get a fist in the way to partially intercept. Hagler scores a few left hands from mid-range. Another wrecking ball right downstairs by Durán. Two-piece up top from Durán, but Hagler again manages to absorb some of the blow in his mitt. Hagler with some southpaw jab feints, full-body twitching to make Durán jump and then leaving him high and dry and continuing to circle.

    10-9 Hagler, clearer

    (more comfortable majority for Hagler in this one, although there is a sizable minority of fans giving it to Durán)


    Round 3

    Durán is finding some more success on the outside, waving a jab and then hammering in the right hand with his momentum carrying him bodily inside. Hagler doing a bit more work in the phonebooth, and cleverer stuff, finding openings under and between Durán's arms. Heavy uppercuts and short right hands by Durán. Hagler responds with a combination and the crowd erupts. Durán pressuring, feeling that the tide turning in his favor. Hagler jabs, shoeshines, and keeps distance.

    10-9 Hagler, super close

    (another wedge round, almost split, maybe a slight majority going Durán and more than a couple with a 10-10 even round)


    Round 4

    Durán is hit with a long probing straight left on the belt line and replies with a leaned-back whip-crack right hand to Hagler's chin. 1-2 by Hagler and he is almost clipped with a laterally scything right hand by Durán, quickly increasing his circling pace. 3rd warning for low blows against Durán. Overhand right by Durán. Hagler doubling a jab darting in and then skitting out. Nice stiff right jab on the chin by Hagler. Durán is pushing out a triple jab and then sweeping across with the right after lulling Hagler. Durán catches a Hagler jab, parrying it aside with his left forearm and clearing a lane to land a right hand. Evasive action by Hagler, with Durán stalking and sniping the body.

    10-9 Durán

    39-37 Hagler

    (most go Roberto here, a few Marvin holdouts)


    Round 5

    Durán is walking into some Hagler traps now, jaw being turned aside sharply by sudden counter right hooks after it appears Hagler is going to step all the way in to clinch and infight. Hagler blocking right hands from Durán, zapping him with the right jab. Both men connect toe to toe with straight punches in the middle of the ring. Hagler moves counter-clockwise, leading with a jab to draw the counter and then countering Durán while sidestepping. Meaty right hook by Hagler in a body punching exchange. Durán clamps his arms over Hagler's in a clinch but the southpaw wrestles free, slips outside and resets. Durán lands a right hand on the chin just before the bell.

    10-9 Hagler

    49-46 Hagler

    (still not a consensus but a pretty big edge in Hagler scorecards)


    Round 6

    Durán is roping out a jab while stepping to his left. Durán discombobulates himself and is caught off-balance, wobbling as Hagler lands a jab. Hagler goes orthodox in close, throwing combos and forming his arms into a protective X over his face when not firing. Hagler pushing apart for brief spells after locking horns with Durán, then coming in with a jab and starting all over with the point blank combos. Sometimes he reverts to southpaw, but lots of work in the right-handed stance. Durán is jabbing to pry Hagler off and looking to drill home a right hand but Hagler blocking and stifling.

    10-9 Hagler, strong round.

    59-55 Hagler

    (this is the first round so far that has been unanimous on all fan scorecards)


    Round 7

    Durán is sneering and floating around the ring, sallying forth with the odd jab or flurry on the body. Hagler starts out southpaw, but switches orthodox in short order while applying pressure, left-jabbing into Durán's throat, and hacking at him with right hands as Durán tries leaning away with head tilted down. Hagler finding Durán with a bit of everything, chasing him into the ropes. Durán thinks better of it, and maneuvers out into the open again. Durán looks a bit tired. Hagler with body shots. Pitty-pat shots by Durán for the most part, but a good uppercut just at the bell.

    10-9 Hagler

    69-64 Hagler

    (just about universally scored for MMH)


    continued in next post
     
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Marvin Nathaniel Hagler vs. Roberto Durán Samaniego, 15 rounds @ middleweight

    Part II/II

    Round 8

    Durán is jumping in, tapping Hagler on the body and circling out. Hagler with a charging double jab, then uppercuts in the phone booth. Hagler still experimenting with the switch-hitting. Sweat and saliva fly from Durán's mouth as Hagler flips up an almost backhanded left from below. Hard right hooks on the flanks by Hagler. Durán is firing hard with both hands but Hagler threading the needle and scoring stiff jabs on the face.

    10-9 Hagler

    79-73 Hagler

    (weirdly a few stubborn supporters of Durán but overwhelmingly for Hagler in another obvious round for him)


    Round 9

    Durán is lifting his left arm and holding it out in jousting fashion, then swinging his right in low for an inverted trebuchet shot. Hagler is scoring in twos and threes, combining a roundhouse left with the right jab, now fully having phased out the RH stance and comfortably settled into his more natural southpaw flow. Durán left hook gets through but Hagler no-sells it and lands thrice on Durán in turn. Hagler is calmly plugging away, being first and last in exchanges, using smart rhythmic footwork, in, out, and side-to-side.

    10-9 Hagler, close

    89-82 Hagler

    (mostly Hag, some 10-10, some Durán)


    Round 10

    Durán is flicking a jab in Hagler's face and taking grain-harvesting inward swipes at the body with either hand. Hagler is gyrating so his body is twisted away from Durán, with his left elbow & bicep soaking up the brunt of his blows to body and head respectively. Hagler sticking a few cheeky elbows into Durán's ribs. Body shots traded, and some chopping right on the neck by Hagler briefly returning to his orthodox stance. Durán walks him down, ducking and rolling with Hagler's overhand rights and countering with body shots. Ref warns Durán for a borderline shot. Durán grins and shrugs at Hagler. Looping right on the body from Hagler at mid-range, but his stuff has less snap on it as he takes perhaps a breather round. Durán is surging, high output, rowing out a fake-out jab to set up a volume of body shots and occasional rights up top. Hagler fending him off but Durán with good frontfoot defense, lots of punches skidding off his wrists or shoulders.

    10-9 Durán, close

    98-92 Hagler

    (bit of a mix, but most go Durán)


    Round 11

    Durán is turning on his rear foot and continuously picking up & replacing his leading foot in quick Velcro motion, his legs looking like a pair of mathematical compasses. Durán stalking, confident. Hagler dancing around, giving the play away. A few right jabs from outside, barely touching Durán's midriff if anything. Durán is thrusting out long jabs at Hagler's chin, singles & doubles, to bait him into either lateral movement or a jump inside. Durán roughing him up in the clinch and sticking a right hand into his lungs.

    10-9 Durán

    107-102 Durán

    (lots of 10-10, a few Hagler, majority Durán)


    Round 12

    Durán is making it very physical, driving his crown into Hagler's sternum and forcing a close-quarters brawl. Durán wrenching on Hagler's arms before the break to further sap his energy. Durán scoring backhanded jabs gliding away from Hagler. Still appearing tired, Hagler lunges and misses as Durán proves as slippery as he is roughly aggressive in spurts. Durán pins Hagler's wrist to his face with his own left glove and bashes him on the other temple with the right fist. Durán slipping Hagler's jabs and ramming into him like a bull with head and shoulders driving the wind from the champion.

    10-9 Durán, excellent work

    116-112 Durán

    (just about everybody sees it for Durán; his best frame)


    Round 13

    Durán is nudging a left jab into Hagler's face and then drifting out of range as Hagler reaches with right jabs in multiples. Durán almost grinning as he makes a seemingly fatigued Hagler fall short without being able to give him a receipt. Very good head movement by Durán, rolling with the few shots that do adequately cover the distance as he zigs and zags around the ring - his paces erratic enough to keep Hagler from getting set, but not overly hurried. Rough clinches, Durán landing body shots. Hagler badly misses a right hook and chopping left, almost toppling over sideways and eating shite as he teeters on his right leg a moment. Durán feeling his oats, sticking the jab, boxing & moving.

    10-9 Durán

    125-122 Hagler

    (this is the last one that anybody scores for Durán, and almost everyone does so)


    Round 14

    And here was have it. Hagler takes a stand, and it's beautifully and brutally efficient. Proof-positive of his greatness as he shows exactly how to respond in the clutch when your back is against the wall and only a handful of precious minutes remain on the clock. He wasn't in danger of losing the contest on my card at this point, but in the view of the all important trio at ringside he was - and his own coaches had the presence of mind to have suspected as much (either that, or they had snuck a glimpse of the arbiters' scribblings). Durán is momentarily transfixed as Hagler roars to life with renewed vim & vigor, totally unexpected after such a strong run of success for Durán in the last few rounds. Hagler keeps jabs flowing steadily in his face, and either his left or right foot (depending on stance, as he's resurrecting the ambidextrous strategy) planted just inside Durán's base. Hagler combining jabs with uppercuts and dusting the back of Durán's head with hooks as the overwhelmed Durán gives up on deterrent flurrying and tries clinching with his chin tucked and face lowered.

    10-9 Hagler

    135-131 Hagler

    (100% Hagler, this and next)


    Round 15

    Durán is up to his old tricks, pushing a jab into the mush and then quickly trotting out just enough to lure Hagler on a string - perhaps hoping the 14th was a last hurrah and that previous trends of Hagler gassing will prevail to allow him to reassert dominance. Nothin' doin. Hagler is a combination machine, mauling Durán, drowning him in hard fast jabs from beard to eyeline, and ripping his torso with hooks and uppercuts. Durán gamely fights back but Hagler is a man possessed, HARD 1-2 on the chin, right hook on the body. Durán has a wild expression in his eyes, pissed off, like he wants to go another 15 immediately to avenge his momentum being stolen and the final impression being such a one-sided beating with him on the wrong end.

    10-9 Hagler

    145-140 Hagler
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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