Jack Johnson 1 Never fought a man in his prime. 2 Feasted on Welter,and Middleweights 3 Took the title off a midget who was suffering from YELLOW FEVER 4 Was allmost kod by a middleweight, but got up to trip him over 5 Was lucky to get the decision over Moran 6 Was scared to fight a Black man while he was Champion[Jim Johnson was blacked up for the fight] 7 Refused to fight Al Jolson 8 Beat his wives 9 Liked to sodomise white women, and had a big dick 10 Ran a Brothel ,and lived off its immoral income 11 Was once seen to kick his dog 12 Lastly and worst of all, he was a great fighter who happened to be BLack and didnt give a **** for any C**T!:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy
What would be considered his five greatest victories, you pick and/or blend the criteria. Just as a note, I'm looking for a mature discussion but apparently among some the topic of Johnson and his achievements is sacrisanct and must be taken as canonical truth.
I will freelyadmit that this is not an easy task. Johnson has a verry deep resume against world class oposition but beat few genuinely great (at the time) fighters. It would be a lot easier to name his ten best wins. We also have to reconstruct many of these performances from newspaper acounts. Another problem is that there is a lot of duplication. For example if you thought that Sam McVea was one of his best oponents would you favour the first second or third performance? Before I atempt my list I will name his five most important wins in terms of his career (not best) in chronological order to provide some background. 1. George Gardiner This was the fight that established Johnson as a contender. Before this he was a regional name and after this he was in the big time. 2. Denver Ed Martin (first fight) This won Johnson the coloured heavyweight title which was the standard steping stone for a black fighter to stake a claim to fight for the oficial title. 3. Sam McVea (first fight) This fight set Johnson apart from the rest of the field as a supercontender, in the eyes of the press rightly or wrongly. Repeat wins over Martin and McVea rammed the impresion home. 4. Tommy Burns Has to be in there since it won Johnson the oficial heavyweigh title. 5. Jim Jeffries Whatever you think the merits of this win were the fact is that it was Johnsons signiture win which sealed the idea that he was not only the best heavyweight around but better than any other three put together.
Now for Johnsons five best ins taking into acount both the importance of the oponent and the manner in which he beat them. Where Johnson beat the same oponent multiple times in a verry short period I am grouping the wins together as one. Again in chronological order. 1. Denver Ed Martin. Martin was tall rangy and mobile and a verry good boxer. Despite giving up a lot of inches Johnson outboxed him in their first encounter. When their first "chess match" did not gain much media interest Johnson went for a more agresive aproach in the rematch and demolished Martin quickly brutaly and eficiently. I consider these fights important not only because they established Johnson as the top black contender but also because they showed two sides of his makeup. In the first fight he outboxed a much taller and rangier technician while in the second he showed his ability to take hiom out quickly ala Jack Dempsey. 2. Sam McVea Much is made of McVeas inexperience in these fights and he would go on to get better but this fight was seen by the press as a showdown between the two outstanding contenders for Jeffries title. McVea himself would do a demolition job on Denver Ed Martin during the series. While I do not think that McVea was at his best I do think that he was already an outstanding contender. Simply put this was a case of Trevor Berbick beating the Mike Tyson of his day. While no footage exists of the fights they seem to be Calzaghe Lacey type shutouts. 3. Sam Langford While I acept the observations made that Langford had not peaked or matured into his heavyweight frame when this fight took place he was a verry short way from being second only to Johnson among the heavyweights if he wasnt already. I feel I have to list this among Johnsons best wins because of the one sided nature of it and what Langford became. 4. Al Kaufman While Kaufman was never a great fighter he was seen as the outstanding white heavyweight when Johnson won the title and would have been seen as being among the top four available challengers of any colour. This fight was a Mayweather Gatti style shutout with Kaufman landing only two clean blows in ten rounds. I feel that such a dominant win combined with the fact that it was over a world class fighter makes it one of the top 5. 5. Position undecided The last position must go to either Tommy Burns or Jim Jeffries based on the fact that they were world champions and were handeled prety convincingly. I provisionaly nominate Jeffries based on the asumption that even in his dilapidated state he would still have been able to beat the other white heavyweights around at the time. I apreciate however that this is speculative. If we disalow this asumption then I would name the Burns fight based on the fact that Burns was the defending heavyweight champion and got absolutely shut out. Even given the size disparity he should have been able to do better. Remember this guy had beaten Marvin Hart who had given Johnson the toughest fight of his coloured heavyweigh title reign. So there you have it These selections are not entirely satisfactory and are based on a number of asumptions but they are the best I can do.
Take it easy, Seamus my missive was not aimed at you ,your opinion is opposite to mine on Johnson I think ,but just as valid and you seem pretty objective ,I just get a little tired of one particular poster ,repeating the same old tired schtick.Peace.
No problem. I was feeling a little defensive, I guess. Interesting stuff, Janitor. It was truly a different era.
Greatest for legacy or greatest in terms of beating his most dangerous opponent in the ring are two different things. For legacy: 1 ) Jeffries, who was old and in active for 5+ years with no warm up fight. 2 ) Langford who was not a full time heavy and lost at 156 pounds. 3 ) Jeanette who was barely a .500 fighter and a novice. 4 ) McVey who was a teenager when he lost 5 ) Burns who was ill, at a low weight and asked for the fight to be postponed until he got better. For greatest wins in terms of beating a live body in shape and near his prime in the ring, it is a different story. 1 ) Burns, even if he was ill and at a low weight was in his prime. 2 ) Moran, the best of the " white hopes " that Johnson beat, Moran was decent enough and in his prime. 3 ) Ed Martin KO2 or win 20 4 ) Gardiner, a very good middle / light heavy, Johnson won in 20. 5 ) Haines, Johnson avenged a TKO loss and draw to win the last fight of the trilogy via TKO in 14 Other live bodies who were not green or too light, or too old that would be among Johnson top 5 most dangerous wins were Hart, Choynski, and Griffin, but he did not win these fights. When the exprience level, age and size were even, Johnson often struggled.
Yes ,unlike you Mr Male model I prefer women's arses to men's. Actually ,joking aside you should do some research on Johnson,then you would find that two charges against him when he was arraigned on the Mann Act were crimes against nature.ie sodomy.The prosecution's principal witness was Yank Kenny an alcoholic sparring partner of Johnson's who overheard a bedroom conversation between Johnson and his then paramour Belle Shreiber. They were all set to parade a well rehearsed Kenny and had coached Shreiber on her part ,but as the DA refused to give Kenny any money for drink he skipped town and their principal witness was gone.For reason's of delicacy Shreiber was never questioned further on the matter and the charge was dropped. See Charlie ,I can be frivolous but I do my homework, that way I dont end up with egg on my face like yourself.Son you are out of your league,stick to the flyweights.
