5 thoughts after reviewing the Klitschko/Pulev fight.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Monogamous STD, Nov 16, 2014.


  1. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    1. I didn't realize Pulev initiated so many of the clinches himself. The Povetkin fight was still leaving a bad taste in my mouth and it's all I was thinking about when they clinched almost immediately. "Here we go again." Wlad actually did not clinch excessively in this fight, the way I saw it the second time. I was wrong.

    2. This was a lot less sloppy and more entertaining than I thought it was when I saw it the first time with friends. I had actually showed them some clips I'd put together of Gonzalez/Yaegashi right before the fight and maybe between that and dreading the potential for Povetkin II, I wasn't appreciating this one the way it was. This was a very decent, scrappy fight even if it was sloppy at times with the long limbs tangling up. And not only was it a decent fight period but for a heavyweight fight and a heavyweight fight involving Wladimir? You're not likely to get much better under those circumstances.

    3. People are picking on Pulev's rabbit punches. I'm not. I consider myself a fan of Klitschko in terms of his overall career even if I've been getting tired of him in recent years but I have been saying the only way to fight Wlad for real is to use dirty tactics if you're any of these contenders. Otherwise, the gap is too wide in class. That's the only way I think they can have success is to use anything in the bag of tricks. Klitschko smothers you even when he doesn't clinch you by moving into your space and giving you the back of his head so it's almost impossible to pull back and fire anything with any real leverage that is a legal blow. He's very clever that way. Yeah it's dirty to punch a guy in the back of the head. No question. It's dirty and dangerous. But I'm not going to pick on a guy for using dirt in a sport like this to his advantage when it's also dirty and dangerous to have a guy lay on your back and neck. You do what you've got to do.

    Wlad's clinch and lean, Lennox's clinch and lean, Tyson's arm locks and punching after the bell and Holyifield's headbutts. The big winners know how to fight dirty-ESPECIALLY when they're not able to get it clean. I said repeatedly after the Povetkin fight that if Povetkin was smart he'd have brought some dirt to Klitschko and very few people would've begrudged him some ball punches or something to turn the tide while he was getting his back broken. This isn't a tickling match it's a fight. Pulev made a good tactical decision among very few last night to get something-to get *anything* over Klitschko. Dirty but tactically, I think that was the right call. Maybe the only one he made.

    4. Pulev will be badly underrated now because he didn't do a half of what Povetkin did by going the distance. But his whole style was so damned wrong for Klitschko I'm not surprised or disappointed in any way. He's still a very good heavyweight contender. But everything he normally does beside knowing how to get dirty was about everything that I think is practically useless against Wlad unless you are a really great fighter, which only Wlad at heavyweight is right now. No shame in that. If you're not great but you want a win over Klitschko, you have to match up with him well or you're another idiot looking for one big punch that never comes-and you probably have to bend or break the rules too and go as far as the ref allows you too.

    5. This fight was pretty great for Klitschko's career. Almost all the best opponents he's had at the earliest/best time he's fought them have gone the distance with him. Either they ran away or Wlad clinched them down or a combination of the two and Wlad sensibly chose to win first and any kind of entertainment had to take a back seat. Think about it.

    Byrd I, Peter I, Haye, Ibragimov and Povetkin- almost all the very top of his resume are decisions even though he's got crazy power in both hands. This knockout was the best thing that he could've done in the best way. An HBO first-half devastation of his number one contender that seems to have completely p*ssed him off in the lead up and at the age of 38. Unless he gets a clean win to seal the WBC title, I think this is going to have to be his sweetest career moment. I really think there's a good chance this was Wlad's last hurrah in a way. That's not me predicting doom for him, only me saying there's a very big chance that this late in the game he's not going to get another good looking win over a top rated guy because it's more normal that when he wins a big one it's a stinker. History says that. Only Chagaev and Thompson on his best wins list (my opinion) ended inside the distance and most of the Thompson fight was kind of ugly at that while Chagaev didn't end dramatically (much prettier performance throughout but anticlimactic finish in the corner). I bet Pulev is the last big one where everything comes together. I hope not but I think the odds say so.

    Any thoughts? Anyone else feel the same way that Wlad washed the taste of Povetkin away and maybe had the fandom rejuvenated a little bit? This is the first time since maybe Chagaev that I've been pretty happy for Wlad and kind of proud of his performance against a top guy.
     
  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Good read and i agree with most of your points.
     
  3. Tancred

    Tancred Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pulev was very poor no head or upper body movement very open to punches and pretty slow I was not shocked I was never very impressed with him . What it showed last night is that wlad looked very impressive but also that he may of fallen a bit himself he was quite open defensively saying it that though his jack Johnson type style remains in tact
     
  4. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

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    I like how Wladimir is always in position to clinch. Even when he jabs he makes sure that he can clinch if his opponent tries to trush him.
    Steward made him a true master of the craft.
    No current top 10 heavyweigh seems to have the technical knowledge nor the experience to beat Wladimir.
     
  5. Saku

    Saku We Are All One Full Member

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    Yup, feel the same way, good post!
     
  6. jim jim

    jim jim Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    is wlad clinching more these days , im not a big fan of the heavyweights ive only watched a few of kilitcackos fights but to me it looks like wlads relying on the clinch a fair bit and he cant around that well anymore, i liked the fight last night but wlad does look like he needs excessive clinching?
     
  7. markclow

    markclow Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I am impressed how Wad could raise his game whenever he wanted last night. For example when Pulev had success in the fifth, WK just wiped him out after that.
     
  8. Ivo

    Ivo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The rabbit punching was too much. Nothing can excuse that way of fighting.
     
  9. skier47

    skier47 Guest

    I like all of Wlad's fights. He can fight defensively and outbox dangerous and fast punchers like David Haye, defang and counterpunch big punchers like
    Sam Peter and get mad and a bit reckless and bomb out guys like Calvin Brock, Austin and Pulev. He shows extraordinary skill and adapts to different styles very well. If you enjoy high level boxing you should enjoy most of Wlad's fights. The Povetkin fight was pretty bad but he was a talented contender who seemed content with going the distance. That's why Wlad just started manhandling him and throwing him around the ring in seeming disgust.
     
  10. Monogamous STD

    Monogamous STD Ya know, Quasimoto predicted all this. Full Member

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    Thanks, everyone who bothered reading my post. I've been accused of being long winded in my threads before. Nice to know some people have the attention span still, agree or disagree.
     
  11. bandeedo

    bandeedo Loyal Member Full Member

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    solid post. i think wlad is well aware of the biggest criticism towards him, that hes too cautious, which makes him boring and less appealing to the mass market. i think at this point in his career, having proven himself as a great champion, he is less worried about losing and having his career questioned, than he is about conquering the us market. i believe he is going to become a more exciting fighter by taking more risks in fights in order to capture the fans attention. im sure hbo went over all this when they offered him a deal.
     
  12. Flurry

    Flurry Krautchamp Full Member

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    I like what you wrote at Point 4 of your post, Wlads style was all wrong for him. The conclusion is Pulev actually is better that he was made to look here cos his style was taylormade for Wlad. But the brutal KO loss might have ruined him mentally, though.
     
  13. Mr "T"

    Mr "T" Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Don't worry, we need posters like you that are logical and present facts
    Good post
     
  14. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    Very good writeup. :good

    Always been a Klitschko fan (both brothers) but the Povetkin fight made me mad. Mostly because it didn't look like Wlad needed to clinch that much at al. In the spare moments he actually fought Pov he had him all over the place, much like with Pulev in this bout.

    But my actual point is that many of the big names in the sport start out exciting until they run into trouble or better fighters, or start to decline. Certainly in the HW division where even hyped up exciting fighters sometimes already start stinking out the place when their opponent doesn't or isn't expected to fall down in the first couple of rounds.
    Wlad started out a seek and destroy fighter and after getting burned a couple of times ended up a jabber/grabber.
    Like the op already said, other big names of the past had their bag of dirty tricks ready and/or had no trouble to grab and hold when they needed too.
    I once read a post here that Ali only started to clinch/hold/run/hold and hit in the later part of his career. Then added that it was as late as the 1st Frazier bout that he started to do that... now, I'm not much of a boxing historian but wasn't that at the start of the second half of his career, around the age of 30?

    But enough about the oldies and comparison with the current kingpin because that only turns out into yelling, name calling and flaming, back to the present.
    Wladimir NEEDS to be exciting. He can't afford not to be because he doesn't have the 'right' passport (yet?*).
    He NEEDS to take risks and blow out his opponents in brutal fashion because otherwise he'll be trown of US tv again, and will get crucified by the fans.

    * Anyone think he might apply for a 2nd passport after marrying Hayden? That just came to me last week in the buildup to this fight. And if he plans that, might that have anything to do with HBO putting him on again because he might actually be an American citizen soon? Just a thought.
     
  15. dirty boy

    dirty boy Member Full Member

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    Some lovely reasoned and sensible comments on here and I agree with the OP in entirety.

    WRT the above. His brother is the Mayor of Kiev and a Ukraine politician, so it wouldn't help his brother particularly if he did 'switch sides' but I wouldn't say it's an impossible scenario, just unlikely.