Mine is a lot different. I do like discussing greatness lists, I just find it extremely tedious compiling them myself. Like here, we have to resume check 50 WW guys. Using my criteria I have to watch fights of 50 WW guys, I know which one I prefer to do. I have no doubt that many men are greater Welters than Forrest, but there really aren't many I pick to beat him. Aside from wild attacks (Mayorga and Mora) he stood up to every style he faced in his career. Awesome jab, awesome power, awesome footwork and balance. Much more fun rating h2h, even if some see it as less credible.
In order that people might stop worrying about it, i've moved Robinson from Tier I to Tier II and renamed the Tiers. It makes no difference really, as Robinson will still almost certainly be #1. I'm surprised that people were so strangified by it though. He's an undefeated world champion, 6-0 in world title fights, well in to double figures for top 10 contenders bested, was never beaten at the weight, was probably as good or better than anyone who ever did it, beat three guys from the top 50, beat, in Gavilan, arguably one of the very best of the rest all-time head to head at the weight.
Well, he didn't have a murderers row on his welterweight resume either, and his competition for all-time top rankings is not a bunch of losers who didn't achieve anything either, so why he should be head and shoulders above the rest by default?
It's not "by default". It is "in my opinion". And that opinion has now been mitigated in order that you can better endure the thread. More than that, I cannot do.
Sorry if I sounded offensive, but it has always been irritating to me when people claim Robinson or Ali as the greatest of all time, without thinking a second. Thanks to Steve, Greb has diluted that duet recently, and I can only hope Gans, R. Leonard and the like start to be considered too, some time in the future, that is if somebody desides to research them and write their bios.
Armstrong, Greb and Langford etc. have long been considered candidates for number 1, if you mean 'pound for pound'.
Unfortunately there are far more important factors in boxing than the opinions of fans. It is the amount of fighters, and trainers, both past and present ( during his lifetime ) who rated SRR as the best fighter EVER that carries the most weight. Ali trying to get Ray as his trainer after leaving Archie Moore and before taking up with Dundee speaks volumes. Apparently SRR turned him down.
Erm, that was supposed to be B. Leonard, Benny Leonard, sorry. But Ray Leonard deserves consideration too, without a doubt.
Yeah, I went for Langford at #1 in the #100 greatest all time and had Robinson at #3. I do think there are only four guys really with the chance of #1, with Fitz maybe having an outside chance.
Langford from 1907 till 1916 was an absolute beast. Every so often I forget just how good and consistent he was during his peak. His record was 66-5-9 with a good handful of NWS fights thrown in for good measure. The only men who beat him during these years were: Wills, McVea, Jeanette and Smith. All heavyweights who share two things in common a) they were able to out point Sam and b) they were knocked out by Sam. A man who by rights should have been a LHW fighting the best of the best (aside from Johnson who refused to face him) and coming out on top. Incredible stuff. His ring IQ is backed up by footage showing his trap setting abilities and obviously his power speaks for itself. An incredible talent indeed. He does make my top 15 list which is incredible considering all those who came after him. He's even relevant in this thread by our boxing Barbados but the rules of the day preventing him claiming the crown.
:good Being familiar with some of these welters from the 70s to the present, I think tiers IV, V and VI are in need of some re-arranging .... but I'm not quite sure what, who and where ... I'm not convinced that Whitaker, Trinidad, De La Hoya as welters would rank above Curry, Starling or, i dare say, Duran. But I do find resumes awfully tricky to compare sometimes.
I'm wrestling with the same issue. I almost think half of tier V and IV can be swapped. I also think Mayweather is at least a tier higher than he should be given the quality of his comp. But all in all a great list.