6 years ago today: Bernard Humphrey "Alien" Hopkins, Jr. vs. Beibut Amirhanoviç "No Limits" Shumenov

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Apr 19, 2020.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    The final professional victory of B-Hop's career, 24¾ years after his first.

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    Kind of weird that it was a SD; ended with a 118-109 card, myself. Weirder still is how little appreciation this post from the RBR got; perhaps the most underrated in the board's history. (granted this was before the introduction of the likes system - and 99% of likes are given to fresh/recent posts as opposed to deep "from the vault" material, which is the only reason my count doesn't currently dwarf the other nine in the top ten combined - I hit my all-time low posting frequency on here during what happened to dovetail with the system's introduction, and thus only got a few hundred thumbs up in the first year or two...but if you were to form a graph of like-per-new-post ratio since implementation, mine would set an impossibly high standard :D - but still, this gem should have prompted two full pages of "rofl" smilies, damn it...)
     
  2. Boon

    Boon Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Stupid question but what is the likes system?
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I was always high on Shumenov's ability, so I rate this win pretty highly for the 49 year old. He was only 30 himself on this night, and yet had the mantle of his prime whipped away, particularly in the second half. Subsequent performances, including a competitive match with BJ Flores (very flatteringly so, to BJ) indicate a different fighter than was consistently pumping out world class form in 2008-2013.

    ...and yes, I'm well aware that for many people he still has a big asterisk next to his Las Vegas win over Gabriel Campillo in their rematch - and yes, he deserved to lose that one. But what is little-known is that in their previous encounter, in his own backyard in Kazakhstan, oddly enough Campillo had actually gotten a road gift in a fight that probably should've gone Shumenov's way. So in reality they're knotted 1-1 just as they should be - although with the official results swapped around.
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Being able to "like" posts. We never had it on vBulletin, and the feature was activated sometime after the admins ported everything over to Xenforo (another forum software, and currently in use here).

    The overwhelming majority of my post-whoring (my 100+ daily post average, fielding 99% of the RBR threads, etc.) came during the vBulletin era.
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Which is all to say, Hopkins was still operating at pretty high levels in 2014. His absolute best? No, he was already in some measure of decline; he was on 50's doorstep FFS. Bottom line is Kovalev should receive some credit for beating more or less the same version of The Alien later this same year. Smith, however, catching him in 2016 with two years of rust, past 50, with the brutal 12 rounds against Kovalev in the rear-view? Eh, significantly less credit. Maybe like 60% of what Kov gets, max...)
     
  6. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

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    I have most of Hopkins' career bouts on the external hard drive, and I didn't skip the archiving in his Alien phase. A glorious HD copy of Showtime's telecast of the Shumenov schooling retains a proud spot in the collection.


    I always credited Kovalev for beating a good Hopkins. When it comes to advanced age, each case should be assessed independently, rather than as part of a '35+ = shot' sweep.

    However, two years of inactivity at 51 was always going to work against Bernard in the swansong bout with Smith. Becoming the first man to take Krush the championship distance would've been a perfectly respectable feat by which to bring down the curtain on his career.
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    IB funfact:

    Hopkins is two years older than Mike Tyson. Hopkins' first professional victory happened eleven days after Tyson lost his zero and immortal aura to Buster Douglas in Tokyo.
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Was hoping you would have made a Bernard Hopkins ass whooping thread courtesy of American hero Joe Smith Jr. instead of the Shumenov fight.

    It was blissfully satisfying.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    As a general rule a great fighter is done putting in vintage performances after 15 years pro or after turning 35 in chronological years. Exceptions are rare which is why on this forum 35=shot is a common line of thinking. Hopkins was sort of an exception, but when you think about it his last "classic" B-Hop performance was against Trinidad at 36. And even then it was already a deviation from his prime form of the mid-late 90s where Hopkins actually showed a pretty solid punch and decent workrate against actual Middleweights.
     
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Um, today's date is today's date. :nusenuse:
     
  11. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Shumenov trained himself for that fight. He had no trainer. I still thought it would be more competitive than it was.
     
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    It was an interesting trend we saw develop in the late aughts through early teens: several fighters in former Soviet Bloc countries (Dmitry Pirog in Russia, Beibut Shumenov in Kazakhstan, and Proksa in Poland), for wont of any world class trainers immediately accessible in their areas, basically reached contender or championship level status in boxing virtually auto-didactically.

    Pirog, Shumenov and Proksa each has a unique style, with all three wildly different from one another - but it always struck me as fascinating that all of them did more or less the same thing (patterning themselves largely on American boxers they watched footage of) at more or less the same time.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    The Pavlik schooling was arguably a career best victory.

    The victory against Pascal was better than anything he achieved in the 90s.
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    The schooling of Pavlik was at least as great a performance as the schooling of Trinidad, yes.
     
  15. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

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    It's a pretty unsound general rule/common line of thinking by my lights, as I don't agree that exceptions are so rare. We've seen the 'rule' bucked many times in recent years. Might be that closer scrutiny is in order. Are you arguing against determining fighters' states of preservation/deterioration on a case-by-case basis?


    There's more than one way to skin a cat. If a guy is capable of adapting to a degree of athletic slowdown, he's still a factor.

    Now, I don't for a moment contend that Danny Garcia should get substantial credit for beating Erik Morales, say. (And I'm no big Garcia detractor.) But a Bernard Hopkins was not near that state of physical decay when he was picking off Tarver and Pavlik, or even Cloud and Shumenov. Erik's legs had looked to be deteriorating even before the first Pacquiao fight, never mind by 2012.