64 Liston vs 74 Ali

Brilliant post.

 

A prime Sonny won't have to go a full 15 rounds, he KOs 74 Ali in under 10

 

Sonny had a good defense, Ali won't be landing that much.

He CHEATED against Frazier in 74

 

That it?

 

And the evidence for Liston accomplishing this is where exactly? Tell me what Liston did to make you think that.

 

His 60s comp isn’t special was my point and the results Liston had against them is indicative of nothing.

 

Liston cleaned out the division and he beat the same men Ali beta in the 60s, the difference being he did it a lot easier than Ali, while those opponents where younger and better than when Ali faced them.

 

Ali dominated Williams and Machen what are you on about? He took it easy on Patterson and won every round last I saw it.

That’s indicative of nothing lol, show me where Liston stopped anyone near as durable as Ali show me where he went 12 rounds against someone who fought back.

You can’t and your picking a dumb hill to die on based on him cleaning out the 60s as being a claim to beating the Muhammad Ali whose two wins in 74 are triple Listons B- career achievements.

 

Not special is very different from "extremely soft".
It was decent competition by historical standards for a HW, not excellent.
Anyway I agreed with the vast majority of your last post.

 

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One year before his fight with Ali, Williams was shot by a cop. The bullet hit him in the stomach and lodged in his right hip. Williams had to undergo four operations in the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney. The right kidney had to be removed in June 1965. Doctors could not extract the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some of the hip's muscles, he also lost over 10 feet of his small intestine, and sustained nerve damage which affected his left leg above the knee and caused it to atrophy as a result.

Patterson fought Ali while having an injured back (his sacroiliac joint). Proof of that is the fact that Patterson did much better in their second match in the 70s, although he was way past his best by then.

Ali was put on his ass by a skinny cruiserweight in Cooper with just 1 punch, and had to resort to cheating in order to win that fight, so spare me the durability crap.

Styles make fights, and while I have always said that prime vs prime, Ali beats Liston, a 74 Ali does not. Liston was a better boxer than Foreman, smarter too, and at his best, he whoops 74 Ali. He won't be as stupid as Foreman was in Zaire.

 

58 Liston beats him, not the 64 version though