7 champs one division died tragically.We are?

Nice reading, thanks

I used to have hundreds of 80's 'fighter' and 'square ring' mags that regularly had great writeups of the fighters of old. It was great stuff reading about the old timers :thumbsup When I came back from overseas after a couple of years away I was horrified to learn my dear old mum had thrown them all out :twisted:

Growing up in Melbourne in the 70's was an experience if you found yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Every Aboriginal that wanted to knock your head off (for no particular reason) was more often than not...."Lionel Rose's cousin". I have no doubt Lionel had more than a few cousins but ****.....

 

Mate, Lionel has some spectacular fighting cousins.. Commonwealth Lightweight Champion, Grahame 'Porky' Brooke (Won title from former World Champ Claude Noel).. Multiple Australian and Commonwealth Champion, Lauchie 'Baby Cassius' Austin.. Australian Flyweight Champion and Commonwealth title contender, Harry Hayes... The extended numbers of fighters from the family is beyond comprehention... Even Lionels brother was a beater of Champs..

Not a family to muck around with.

 

Darcy never won the title either. Its also a debateable point that he was the best MW in the world while Mike Gibbons was fighting in the division.

 

And Greb as well. Jack Dillon was still making the weight then and making a pretty hard stand during that era. I don't pick Darcy as a sure winner over him either.

 

Greb was making a name as a contender in 1917 but I dont consider him the top guy in the division. Maybe top five at best. He lost pretty handily in a six rounder to Gibbons early in the year in a great learning experience. Gibbons was going to be hard for anyone below 175 pounds to beat prior to WW1. If he made Darcy make weight (the middleweight limit was 158, not 160 as they set it in Australia) I think Darcy would have a tough time with Gibbons.

 

What do you think about Darcy-Dillon?

 

With all due respects...


Keep dreaming. George Chip was so amazing too...

 

Greb Top 5 in 1917??? Really Steve?? He'd accomplished little. Been KO'd.. Battled to Drawn decisions.. Managed to last a couple of 10 rounders.. Again, respectfully.. Keep the dream alive mate.

 

You will notice I said MAYBE top five. In 1917 Greb defeated George Chip twice, Jack Dillon, lHW champ Battling Levinsky (who he had knocked down in the last ten seconds of the fight and had out on his feet at the final bell), and middleweight champ Al McCoy. All in one sided fashion. In addition to this he defeated good contenders such as Joe Borrell, Willie KO Brennan, Jeff Smith twice, Gus Christie three times, and Willie Meehan. So why is it out of the realm of possibility that there werent five middleweights in the world better than him in 1917?

Les Darcy had losses, on his record as well, one of which should have been a KO loss to Jeff Smith who Greb never lost to in several fights. Should I suddenly assume that he was nothing in 1917?

If you so easily dismiss Mike Gibbons you need to stick to idolizing your fighters from the land of oz... the one where the wizard comes from, not the land down under. You obviously dont know just how good Gibbons was. Furthermore all of this is conjecture considering even Darcy wasnt sure he would ever be able to make the middleweight limit in America. He arrived weighing something like 185 pounds and as stated above the set limit for the division was 158, not the more comfortable 160 that he had been fighting under. Furthermore, in the United States Darcy wasnt going to have the benefit of fighting on cards promoted by his management, in a stadium owned by his management, in front of friendly crowds, against opponents who had travelled weeks to fight on foreign soil, with a ref that was the brother of your manager... In short, Darcy wasnt going to have it all his own way. If you think that doesnt suddenly make him a lot more human than you have on some seriously rose colored glasses about your boy.

 

Klompy... Answer these questions mate.



In the weeks up until his death, and whilst training in Memphis, what was Darcy's weight????

Jeff Smith deserved a KO win over Darcy?? In which particular fight?? Provide me with any single negatively spoken accusation from Smith regarding Darcy.

Darcy was a tool for Sydney Stadiums.. As was Jeff Smith, Jimmy Clabby, Fritz Holland, George Brown, George Chip, Gus Christe, Eddie McGoorty, Billy Murray... Darcy was the only fighter who never sulked about fighting the 20 round journey, unlike the VERY typically American counterparts who threw hissy fits about fighting the 20 round distance on a booked fortnightly/monthly basis.
Greb, Greb, Greb... another wild swinging, uncordinated Yank that fell at the feet of the same man who fell at Darcy's.. How often was Greb fighting in realistic encounters prior to 1918??? Other than 10 round no desicion snooze fests every week. Yeah, must have been hellish battles.. How many blokes engage in 10 round wars every week??

Darcy had losses. Bob Whitelaw for the Oz Welter Crown.. just a kid.. Fritz Holland.. Never KO'd by the dynamic Yanks or systematically derailed in his prime. Oh, that's right Steve... Darcy had his last fight when just 20 y/o.. Imagine if he had matured!!!

Darcy was never going to have it ALL his own way in the USA. He simply wanted to fight. He'd have wiped the floor with any/ and every so called Yanky fighter..

Don't ever mention Al McCoys name in the same sentence as Darcy's again.

Rave on about Gibbons mate, and I'll rave on about Les Darcy. His untimely death erased one of the games most aspiring heroes. A hero he was already.

:hi:

 

In the newspapers from Memphis leading up to Darcy's death no weight is given that I have been able to find.

In the first Smith-Darcy fight Smith landed a BODYBLOW which doubled Darcy up. He tried to claim a foul but this was not allowed by the referee who demanded he continue to fight. Darcy refused to fight and Dave Smith threw in the towel. Darcy was then disqualified. Anywhere else in the world a guy who refuses to fight on and has the towel thrown in by his corner is considered TKO'd. Anywhere except in Darcy's own playpen which was Stadiums Unlimited.

Oh really? Because most of the fighters you name as having bitched and complained about going twenty rounds in Australia actually went twenty rounds before and after they met Darcy...

So Greb was a wild swinging uncoordinated yank who somehow consistently ranks in the top 2 or 3 in the history of the sport... Wow, talk about bias.

So ND bouts were not realistic encounters? Sounds like someone doesnt know his history.

Darcy was going to wipe the floor with all the yanks? Again, sounds awfully biased. One of us is giving a realistic assessment of the very real possibility that Darcy might not have fought as successfully in America given several big question marks that sorround him and one of us is blinded by a jingoistic love for a hero from his homeland, I'll let the readers decide which is which.

I will rave about Gibbons. Gibbons was an amazing fighter.

 

Klompy,
Gibbons is just as incredulous as your incessant dribble.

Again, please oh wise Yankee.. Answer with clarity this time..

Smith vs Darcy.. Body blow??? Oh, the one that dented the groin sheild? Poor example mate.. very poor.

The fighters I named actually complained for having to fight fellow Yanks in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney. McGoorty, Smith, Brown (fled like a sulking lady) and Christie. Holland is potentially the most creditable of the lott.

Of those who faced Darcy over 20 rounds, which of those were sucessful against him???? Holland in Darcy's first Stadium appearance.. wow, great way to promote (cheat for..) an aspiring talent, hey Klompy??? What did Holland hav to say about Les after the 2nd, 3rd or 4th meet???

What did McGoorty, Chip, Clabby or Brown have to say also?? Chip.. lmao.. yeah, he simply capitulated after the 'Amazing American Sports Writer, Bat Masterson' proclaimed him to be the hardest punching and most skillful American to venture to Australian shores.. Chip was no better than a fricking amatuer mate. Swiping backhander out of range and poorly attempted right hands.. lmao..

ND's??? **** me dead!! Ok, how about Griffo arriving in the USA after close to 200 pro bouts in Oz (yes Steve, close to 200) and being forced into favourable short fights to suit the limited Yank abilities. Darcy veiwed numerous battles in the USA and (Even as the humble lad he was ) laughed audibally at the likelyhood of earning the vast sums of $$$ available for fighting 10 rounders agaisnt the Dillons, mcCoys or anyone..

Name a single fighter Darcy refused to face, when faced with a potential contract in the USA.

Ummmm... your turn!!

 

According to Darcy's own referee it was a bodyblow. The newspaper reports also make it clear that no low blow was clearly visible. Thus, as per the rules of the sport, if Darcy refused to continue it should be a TKO. Period.

So in the same sentance you bash Brown (who many felt was robbed in his second match with Darcy) yet elevate Fritz Holland who had lost while in his prime to Brown over the 20 round route which you insinuate Brown was afraid to fight. Oh, and I have the film of Darcy-Brown... Brown didnt take a backward step so lets not pretend he was ever running from you homeboy.

You keep harping on Darcy this and that but you also refuse to admit that Darcy was fighting in front of friendly audiences in a venue owned by his manager and promotional team before a referee that was the brother of his manager, at a weight he was most comfortable at, against fighters who had travelled literally weeks to get there, fighting on foreign soil, training with foreign sparring partners, eating foreign food, in front of hostile crowds, etc etc.


You denigrate Chip as an amateur but he was with Darcy all the way until the fifth round and that was again fighting with every advantage to Darcy. EVERY ADVANTAGE. People today complain about how slanted fights are in Germany toward German promoters but at this time in Australia things were every bit as slanted if not more slanted for Darcy. Thats a fact and to deny that this at least possibly played a role in his performances flys in the face of logic.

Yes I too have read Darcy's letters home where he denigrates our fighters such as Dillon and McCoy (at least McCoy deserved to be denigrated) but Darcy also had a very naive and ignorant notion that he was going to come here and be able to pick and choose exactly who he fought and dictate for how much. We saw how that worked out for him. You may not be aware but long before Darcy was branded a slacker here he had already fallen out of favor with the public because he was had refused contracts with Mike Gibbons (for more money than he had ever made) and Dillon, and was instead trying to choose softer opposition. In fact I use a cartoon from the times illustrating the distaste for Darcy which shows him in front a long line of contenders and picking out the easiest one of the bunch. He killed more than one match by asking for massive amounts of money that no promoter would pay to him sight unseen and that no audience could generate to make a profit. Instead he went on a vaudville tour of exhibitions which was a dismal failure. At one stop in Buffalo he was accosted outside by a group of street urchins shouting that he wasnt a fighter he was a bum because it was believed he was trying to bilk the public for their money as a fighter while refusing to fight actual fights. He wouldnt even fight ND fights. So dont preach to me about your boy because apparently I know more about him than you do. When it became clear that he had dodged his nations conscription in favor of the almighty dollar he was banned from one locale after another. Finally he landed in the relative boxing backward of Memphis under the guidance of Billy Haack. About as low a fall as you could make from the other markets he had been run out of. Who was his first choice as an opponent: Len Rowlands. A journeyman fighter at best who had until recently been fighting as a welterweight. And for the record it wasnt a big New Orleans 20 rounder that Darcy was going to get, it was an 8 rounder. In order to get this fight he had to join the armed forces. Did he choose the Army? The navy? Nope, he chose the newly established aviation corps and not even the full aviation corps, he joined the ****ing reserves. No, he wasnt trying to avoid the war or just cash in... :-(

When you put it all in perspect it kind of takes the bloom off that australian rose a bit doesnt it?

 

Two of his fights with George Dixon were for 20 and 25 rounds respectively. He fought George Kid Lavigne 20 rounds. He LOST to Charley McKeever in 20.

Bernstein...Daly...Everhardt....all 20 rounders. And there were more.