70's Foreman versus Emanuel Steward trained Wladimir klitschko

Brother it ain't Pokemon, those guys won for different reasons then being roughly (bigger) the size of Foreman lol just because they can doesn’t mean he would - BOTH of those guys beat up Foreman as well to be honest, similar reasons as Wlad but with different presentation.

 

Brewster could’ve beat virtually everyone “Young” GF did, put shot Frazier, Norton and Lyle in the same year and he’d get it done IMO.

 

Yeah but Foreman doesn't fight like Haye either lol so the comparison I replied to also didn't make much sense.

Foreman fought a couple of fights around 230 in the 70's and was leaner than both those guys, they weren't bigger than him. They were carrying useless weight, something you mentioned earlier.

And to add to that, Foreman is taller than Brewster with a longer reach as well so how on earth is Brewster bigger?

Btw I'm not even saying Foreman for sure wins this, but making such a big deal about size doesn't really make a lot of sense in this case considering Wlad has been destroyed by much smaller men multiple times.

 

Size is weird here, Foreman was roughly 215lbs-220lbs in his prime, in and around it so that’s the number I use, keeping in mind he weighed in clothed and with combat boots…
I regularly say Louis would murder anyone at any size, I’m not fixating on size because it’s the be all, here it matters because Foreman’s style needs it, even as an old man he insisted on it. Brewster and Sanders got Wlad in ways Foreman is incapable of, the way he fights is classically “big” Wlad would make him look tiny similar to Haye, rushing Wlad with no head movement and an over reliance on pushing / framing - swinging that wild is going to get him killed here, Lyle almost took him out in round one when both of them were fresh I’d hate to see what Klitschko could do…

 

Brewster got beaten convincingly by Charles Shufford, Clifford Eitenne, Siarhei Liakhovich, and got beaten up by Kali Meehan getting a gift decision you're greatly overrating his H2H abilities.

Because I know damn well Foreman wouldn't lose to any of the fighters above.

 

4-2 in title fights is a lot like Foreman.

 

Except Foreman has a considerably better record against top 10 ranked Heavyweights and doesn't have multiple losses to B and C class Heavyweights in his prime.

And Brewster should be 3-3 he lost to Kali Meehan everyone knows this.

 

Foreman does have multiple loses to B level heavyweights (yes, Young was B level) and C level would be arguable if not for the gift against Schultz and close call against Stewart.

Brewster beat Meehan. Officially, punchstats, and otherwise. You don't just get to go around changing results because you score every fight for the underdog.

 

Young competed against the best Heavyweights of that era Ali, Norton, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, 3 of them are amongst the top 5 of that era. Young is considerably higher rated than the likes of Shufford, Eitenne.

No Brewster did not beat Meehan it was considered a total gift decision Brewster was hesitant and afraid to really engage with Meehan based on previous sparring sessions where Meehan had hurt him with right hands which Brewster had commented before about his power.

I had it clearly 115-112 for Meehan with a 2 point round in the 8th round which was a 10-8 round without a knockdown because Brewster got absolutely dominated in the round.

Nothing to do with being the underdog Meehan clearly beat Brewster end of.

 

Just because you scored a fight a certain way, which contradicts the punchstats, doesn't mean that the officials have to.

And Brewster did beat the best fighter of his era. Foreman didn't.

 

A vast majority scored it for Meehan why don't you go look online and see how many people think Meehan won it.

Foreman also landed more punches than Schultz in their fight do you consider that an accurate representation of that fight aswell ? Because you're using punchstats for the Brewster fight I guess you think they're relevant in that fight aswell.

I'd love to see your RBR because I thought the rounds were pretty clear Brewster was unusually passive in the fight.

 

Like any Klitschko fantasy fight against an opponent who is far from outmatched (whatever the usual lot will have you believe), some of it will rest on whether or not the third man is either neutral or one of the typical paid off hacks who allowed Wlad to get away with the usual nerve-induced Akinwandesque bearhuggery that came into play against awkward or hard-hitting opponents who couldn't be deterred by footwork/distance control (young Foreman is definitely that imo).

If Foreman, once inevitably in range despite Wlads own very good distance control, could consistently use his own Saddler/Johnsonesque outstretched arms to prempt Klitschko octopussing him without being chess manoevred too often onto jabs and straight fights coming down the pipe.......or if he could get his forearms up to fight off a clinch and shove Wlad back, a big part of Wlads arsenal is nullified and he's in big trouble imo despite having the sort of well set up powerful straight punches in his armoury to hurt Foreman.

Klitschko though - through a mixture of caution and nerves - rarely let his full repertoire (which was formidable) loose even against low to moderate threats, never mind the likes of a killer like Foreman. He was content against the likes a dangerous but plodding one string fiddle like Haye or a past-it Rahman to purely contain them with minimal risk despite having the tools (chin/powers of recovery aside) to largely outgun them and stop them in a few rounds. And I don't think it was in the manner of a confident -in-his - abilities but pragmatic great fighter showing due respect to an elite challengers considerable abilities and calmly drawing from his own multi toolbox to exploit in the smartest manner any stylistic weaknesses. Say, in the manner of a Robinson outboxing the likes of Gavilan or Olivares showing caution while systematically breaking down dangerous huge punchers like Pimentel and Medel. Hagler matadoring Briscoe, Monzon with Valdez etc. It stemmed from an excessive fear and panic of being hit hard and often even by an overmatched opponent and having an average chin and questionable survival powers being tested.

Foreman couldn't slip a punch to save his life, rarely had his stamina tested and had the occasional comical clubbing bomb or ugly flail thrown into the mix, but his general mechanics of delivery were sound, and his accuracy, sense of offensive rhythm and timing, though sometimes awkward were generally excellent and deceptive. Slow enough of hand but with good footspeed and technical closing footwork, as Ali found out, topped off with huge strength, brutal two handed power and a mean as f*ck attitude bent on hurting opponents.

Based on Wlads entire career, both good and bad, strengths and weaknesses, manner of defeats, psychological makeup, and the way the second half of his career unfolded on a fight by fight basis fighting the way he did.......the unwaveringly confident idea that THAT guy, potentially great and formidable though he had the tools to be from an offensive standpoint, is going to go in against a fighter like Foreman and fearlessly and confidently dole out a cold, confident Monzonesque beating of perpetually pumping jabs, rights and hooks.....is nebulous at the very best and not in keeping with the fighters career captured on film imo. More towards the worser end, it's a typical example of the weird, Eastern Europhilia routinely and fervently displayed on this forum by certain people, with what sometimes seems like an unpleasant undercurrent of racial implication lingering within it. I just can't see Klitschko confidently and constantly trying to throw, thread and time the volume of spiteful straight punches that Ali did over and through George's arm extending and parrying attempts. Nor can I see him trying to walk and manipulate Foreman in the clinch either with same nuance or craftiness even if he does manage to pull Foremans head down and lean on him sometimes. Ali had incredible functional strength and confidence with it that I don't think Wlad quite had despite being bigger and employing roughly similar tactics.

The Lyle version of Foreman with diminished confidence and openness to fearless punching vs the pre-Steward Klitschko who fought with more abandon and less psychological hinderance is a more interesting and fun proposition.

But yeah, I don't like Wlads chances otherwise unless he walks\frames Foreman onto something huge and doesnt let him off the hook.

 

Wlad wins, and quite easy, but on points and it's gonna be a borefest.
Wlad will hug everytime Foreman gets in close.

 

Don't think Foreman has the defense to stop Wlad from just hitting him with his Jab and Right hand all night and Wlad won't let Foreman get close enough to unload so either late stoppage or clear decision

 

Which is why he wins...