80's foreman vs prime tyson

There is a world of difference in the form of a long retirement and lack of experience George had already beaten ATG hall of farmers and become champion of the world how does he lack in experience at all?

There isn't 'a world of difference' between not being experienced and having ten years of retirement. That's why George was matched with mostly trial horses and journeymen when he came back, same kind of opposition Tyson had been fighting in 84 and 85 when he first started out. Okay, it might not be lack of experience as such but it shows that 80s Foreman was not ready for top class opposition. Just as an inexperienced rookie wouldn't have been.

You're telling me the difference in chin is marginal? See both of them fight Evander for comparison George was floored against a demonic puncher in the form of Lyle and still got up and claimed his scalp how many fights has Tyson got up to win?
That answers the chin and heart no?

Yes, George got up after being knocked down by a murderous puncher in Lyle. Tyson got hit hard by a massive puncher in Ruddock. He didn't get up to win because he never went down in the first place. The chin question isn't definitively answered and you cite an example of Foreman some 12 years younger than the one in this hypothetical. It's not the fighter we've been asked to consider.

Tommy Morrison for God sake the man Ray Mercer attributed as the man who hit him hardest was shrugged off like Rain water the entire fight with George playing the aggressor the entire time.

The Morrison fight is also inconclusive. Tommy may well have hit Mercer harder than anyone else did but he fought a different fight against George and never unleashed anything like the barrages he had thrown at Mercer. He was playing tap and run against George. While that showed he had a lot of respect for George, it doesn't give us any proof of the sturdiness of Foreman's chin one way or the other as he never tested it.

Style don't kid me my man you don't think George wouldn't Enjoy fighting an aggressive fighter with no retreat in him?

I don't think George would have enjoyed fighting a fighter with Tyson's style in the mid-late 80s. I don't think anyone would. He was a horrible blend of speed, two fisted power and nastiness once he had you on the go. George's pushing tactic would have been risky as it would have meant lowering his guard. He'd better be quick when he does that if he's leaving an open target and 80s George was not renowned for speed. So that means he relies on his jab. Prime Tyson was good at slipping jabs that were a lot quicker than George's. It's stylistically tricky for George too.

Weight is weight muscle or fat its more mass behind punches.

I can't agree that extra weight is such an issue. George was fat. Weight isn't an advantage when it's fat. Power comes from speed, snap, timing and being in perfect position as well as weight and 30 odd lbs of excess flesh severely diminishes the ability to exercise those factors efficiently to increase punch power.

"Probably hit harder"....
That was dumb to say all who fought both disagree with that it's clearly not marginal George TKO'd this granite chinned felloe named Chuvalo and a legend named Joe Fraizer Tyson "TKO'd" Razor Ruddock...

George TKOd Frazier and Chuvalo? Yes but a) that was 15 years previously and b) he never kept Joe down and never put Chuvalo down. Pinklon Thomas had an excellent chin and it looked like Tyson nailed him to the floor.

You say it was 'dumb' to rate both fighters' power fairly evenly because common opponents say George hit harder? I know Holyfield said that but he fought a shell of Tyson who had lost the footwork to be able to generate his power. Lou Savarese and Alex Stewart both took Foreman the distance. Add the time they spent in the ring with Tyson together and it doesn't equal one round. Has anyone asked their opinion? If George hit harder, he wasn't using that advantage when he got in the ring by the looks of things. As I say, there are so many more factors than weight or strength of punch when determining how destructive a fighter is.

"Possibly stronger"
....Are you dense? See prime Evander be manhandled like a child against Foreman then look at Tyson be manhandled by post prime Evander...
If you don't think strength has its uses you have only ever sat ringside cleary.

The strength issue is one I'll concede though not sure my original view made me 'dense'. George was stronger. So was Bruno, Smith. It may have been an advantage but only if other factors like speed, head movement, footwork, reflexes, hand speed are all relatively equal which wasn't the case with 80s George and 80s Tyson. Otherwise weightlifters or American footballers could take up boxing easily.

I remember a time when Tyson was consideed unbeatable till a journeyman left him picking his mouth guard up off the floor.

Just like Tyson, there was a time when Foreman was 'considered unbeatable' until his opponent simply refused to go down when George kept hitting him and that ended with George sat on his arse looking at his corner to see if the ref had reached ten yet. No grappling for his mouthpiece or trying desperately to get up and that was after eight fairly evenly contested rounds. And that version of Foreman was 15 years younger and hadn't had ten years out of the ring, unlike the one that we are considering in this match up.

 

Evening, War. I have answered this post but don't know how to use the quote option so have tried to answer your points which I've put in italics. Not ideal but I hope it's easy enough to read and see where our opinions differ. Cheers.

 

Nice post!
Calling you dense was a tad harsh but I was getting an overly bias Tyson impression I'd certainly enjoy arguing shortly enough though till then God bless.

 

I'd say Holyfield is a pretty good barometer to use when comparing chins in my view.

42 years old Foreman ate up numerous flush shots in combination from a prime undefeated Evander Holyfield with barely a stumble in an exceptional display of heart and chin.

30 year old Tyson was floored and punched until he was staggering and senseless against a thought to be shot (maybe not but definitely past prime) Holyfield until he had to saved by the referee. This was a Holyfield who hadn't scored a legitimate stoppage since not long after he fought George. In the rematch Tyson was rocked again early before he b1tched out, to show it was no fluke. Tyson didn't receive the sustained punishment that George did but still was TKO'd.

I'd give the clear edge in chin and durability to Foreman.

 

Shut up nerd

 

I never saw Tyson hurt in the Holy rematch. I saw him bleed as early as the 2nd round due to a headbutt. He was never rocked.

We don't know when Holyfield's prime really was. The undefeated champ who fought Foreman hadn't experienced a loss yet. Not saying that's what it takes for a man to be "prime", but he was able to adapt at an older age, used his smarts and paced himself better after Bowe took him to the woodshed. Not to mention the added bulk and numerous rounds under his belt against the very best in the division. The dude fought everyone.

So which Holyfield is prime? The young undefeated warrior or the older, wiser, roid enhanced veteran?

 

The undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion version (you know who hadn't gassed out against Moorer in losing his title, been stopped by Bowe after being exhausted within half a fight, and then looked like garbage in beating Bobby Czyz in the fight prior to whipping Tyson) would be most unbiased observers tip for prime Holyfield.

I'm not surprised you're having difficulty distinguishing which though.

 

Cram it fanboy.

 

Calm down dude. I disagree. I think Evan Fields, the more experienced fighter with added roid bulk was more capable. The one who didn't brawl with everyone. The smarter version. The roided version.

 

And Tyson was completely clean was he?

A known and admitted drug abuser says no to the steroids that were rife in the heavyweight division then? Yeah sure he did, considering he hated training and the sport but still came in ripped after a 3 year prison lay off then add in the roid rage induced dummy spits the big ponce had.

Roided Holyfield>>>>>>>>>Roided Tyson

 

And clean prime Tyson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prime roided Holyfield.

Now what?

 

I can prove my assertion.

Now prove yours.

 

H

He thinks their was a clean Tyson.

 

Cus went on quote saying no one could beat foreman in a toe to toe slugfest, and Tyson was always a slugfest kind of fighter. If Morrison could change his style of fighting completely to outbox foreman I'm sure Tyson could do the same only better, otherwise the old timer is gonna son him. Foreman is stylistically all wrong for Tyson, Mike and cus knew this and that's probably why he never fought come back foreman, even at 40 he was a very very dangerous guy.

 

Your main point is great...but when did Tyson ever outbox anybody?