86-89 , Was Tyson THAT good / or were his opponents so poor ?

I’ve never been in either camp which stated he was invincible OR that his competition was weak. I kind of sit in the middle. Most of the guys he fought starting from the Jesse Ferguson fight to Carl Williams were pretty good and all were beaten decisively. Even Holmes at 38 years old and being off for two years was still better than a lot of guys. So no, I don’t think his opposition was weak but nor do I think it was the best of all time. And yes I think Mike Tyson from 1986-1989 was awesome but certainly not invincible or the greatest

 

He was that good. No he doesn't have a Joe Frazier on his record, but he beat some very good world class modern sized heavies. He didn’t duck anyone during his reign . He fought the best available opponents. That's all you can ask for. We don't have a time machine to teleport him back in time to fight Muhammad Ali or George Foreman.

You can say the same about Ali's reign in the 60s. Ali was a huge heavyweight by 1960s standards. For the most part, he fought guys who would be cruisers with same day weigh ins and some, like say Henry Cooper, could make light heavyweight with day before weigh ins. You can accuse Ali of beating up on cruisers and light heavyweights and the reason he didn't look like that in the 1970s was that the size and skill level of his competition increased. I'm not arguing that, but I have heard it said.

 

He was sensational. Not Ali or prime Louis level, but up there. For nearly three years he was unstoppable, and seemed the closest since Holmes to the Great 1970s lineage. Him getting knocked out didn't change that, hell even the great Frazier only held the world title a few years I believe.

Only guys like Liston, prime Foreman, FOTC-Frazier (and maybe Norton-levelling Shavers) were as frightening h2h imo.

 

He was that good and that's one of the reasons he made his opponents look so weak. Michael Spinks was seen as a great boxer but his reputation never recovered after what Tyson did to him.

 

Like any top elite, it's a balance of both. But it was mostly that he was that good.

 

Those guys that he plastered and made fools of were still world class fighters and hung around for a while longer after that. His opposition was not phenomenal, but it was damn well solid.

 

Literally, every one of Tyson's opponents was either chinny, weak, fat, slow, an addict, scared to death, a hype job, unmotivated, had A or B or O or AB blood type, hair or was already balding, or, even worse, bald by the time he fought them. Most of them had chromosomes of different types and telomeres which had shortened, to some extent, from an earlier time. This is not a group to make a boxer look bad.

 

Michael Spinks = ATG Light Heavyweight, good Heavyweight, won 15 world title fights was also 31-0 and had never been legitimately floored in a professional fight the knockdown vs Qawi was a slip. Tyson dismantled Spinks in 90 seconds it's one of the best wins in Heavyweight history taking into account the manner in which Tyson did it. I've said this before but it would've been like Fury dominating and stopping Usyk early.

Larry Holmes = ATG Heavyweight won 20 world title fights but he was 38 years old and was inactive coming off two losses. But taking into account Holmes was only ever stopped by Tyson and was never stopped again after the Tyson loss, with notable performances vs Mercer and a prime Holyfield. I think Tyson's stoppage over Holmes is still a good one with the context of what i said above.

Pinklon Thomas = Went undefeated for 7 years between 78-85 only had the 1 loss to Berbick in a very close entertaining fight where both fighters landed over 300 punches. Thomas had one of the best jabs of all time in the Heavyweight division and solid chin, he was a bit past his absolute peak vs Tyson but still a good win for Tyson.

Frank Bruno = Good jab a devastating right hand puncher pretty much Tyson was the only fighter to ever beat him comfortably. Lewis, Bonecrusher, Witherspoon, all had hell vs Bruno. A good win for Tyson against a dangerous puncher with a good jab.

Tyrell Biggs = Very talented undefeated Olympic gold medalist his problem was he liked to mix it up too much instead of using his boxing skills along with his height, reach. Tyson absolutely dominated Biggs and i think he ruined him honestly good win for Tyson.

Tony Tubbs = Tubbs had some of the quickest hand speed in Heavyweight history and had notable wins over Page, Bonecrusher. His only loss to that point was to Witherspoon in a close fight. It has to be said Tubbs wasn't in the best of shape vs Tyson so that does take some shine off of Tyson's win. But again that's not Tyson's fault he went out and stopped Tubbs early solid win for Tyson all in all.

Trevor Berbick = Berbick is one of the most underrated 80's Heavyweights beat undefeated notable Heavyweights like Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, also had a good win over John Tate. Tyson at 21 years old and having already fought 12 times that year including going 10 rounds on 3 different occasions absolutely dismantled Berbick. A good win for Tyson against a Berbick who was coming off the best win of his career, it's also worth noting Berbick fought for another 14 years and was never stopped again.

Tony Tucker = 34-0 coming into the Tyson fight i do feel Tucker is a bit overrated and his record is heavily padded. But still he was 6'5 undefeated and was a big skillful man good win for Tyson.

Bonecrusher Smith = Coming off a big win vs Witherspoon i do wish Witherspoon had fought Tyson instead as we would've got a better fight for sure if Witherspoon trained properly. But still Bonecrusher was a dangerous fighter with a big punch but he let himself down vs Tyson unfortunately.

Carl Williams = Another big skillful 6'5 Heavyweight with a staggering 85 inch reach, he's known for out jabbing the great Larry Holmes and also having a very good argument to beating Holmes on points aswell. I think Carl Williams was rated the number 2 Heavyweight aswell when Tyson beat him. Good win for Tyson against a big skillful Heavyweight.

All in all Tyson went 37-0 between 1985-1989 and only 4 fighters went the distance with him and mostly all of them fought to survive. Tyson won 10 world title fights beating 7 or 8 ? ranked fighters. 8 stoppages in 10 world titles, unified the division, lineal Heavyweight champion.

It's one of the most destructive impressive reigns ever and should be respected whether you're a fan of his or not.

 

Whenever a boxer goes on a tear and beats everybody in sight, some people will always say their competition was weak and/or poor and/or old and/or inexperienced, and/or small (take your pick). Most of the time they are simply supporting their own agendas, for whatever reasons they have.

 

From the Trevor Berbick fight to the Michael Spinks fight, he a machine build from hand-speed, two-fisted power, combinations, peek-a-boo defense, training and bad intentions.

Starting with the Bruno fight, he abandoned most of those things in favor of relying on power, and he wasn't that good anymore.

 

I think that the Tubbs win was one of Tyson's best. He went on to give Bowe way more than he asked for.

 

He was that good basically. At his best he was the best I've ever seen at getting rid of good to very good fighters. From Berbick to Spinks it would have taken ATG opponents to have more than fleeting success against him. He was a lighter fighters nightmare and would have been hell on wheels for any man moving up a division.

 

Logic dictates that you’re very rarely, if ever, going to have a period like the 1970’s Heavyweight scene, so it’s only natural Tyson would be struggling for competitors of similar ability. He was that good…but his opposition, if we’re being honest here, was fairly poor.

While I’m willing to believe Tyson could have stood in with most of the best Heavies who ever lived, I do regard his career as nothing short of a colossal failure, relative to his potential. Very arguably not a top 10 ATG, & that’s remarkable given his gifts.

 

Great summary but I'd also include his 2 victories over Razor Ruddock a real dangerous HW at the time.

Yes, those wins were post-Douglass and likely get overlooked because of that, but for that brief time Tyson looked nearly back to his former self.