'86 Tyson vs. '74 Ali.

The 74 version that fought Foreman still was a terrific fighter and he wins a decision pulling away ...

 

I love this fight of course, who doesn't? And Ali was actually asked about this match-up once, when he and Mike and Ray Leonard were all on the Tonight Show and Leno asked him, "How would you have done against him, (Tyson)?"

With big, scary eyes, in his gravelly humorous voice Ali said, "If he'd hit me he'd kill me."

Mike, who'd looked in awe of Ali the entire time just kind of shook his head and smiled, mouthed something like, "Oh no, he's the greatest." Everyone knew it was graciousness on both parts. There was alotta respect on both sides. Now that was a fairly young Tyson. Before the failed marriage and the meltdown, a few years older than the Tyson we're talking about here. But I think it's very interesting, that Ali's greatest strength was Tyson's greatest vulnerability: Psychological Warfare vs. Mental Toughness.

Tyson would have a shot, if he wouldn't have a puncher's chance, a killer's chance, who would? But I can see Tyson breaking down, as he's frustrated round by round. I know Ali wasn't moving as well by then, and Tyson was a busy fighter, he was a lot like Frazier in that respect. But Foreman actually hit harder than either Tyson or Frazier, and even though he was still green in Zaire, he was still more mentally sound than Tyson ever was.

You could argue that Tyson would present the same kind of relentless pursuit as did Frazier, that he hit harder than Joe, and that those three fights were the challenges of Ali's career, true. Pick 'em, but I'll go with Ali.

 

Ali by close UD. Tyson would build a lead in the beginning of the fight as Ali uses the rope-a-dope. Tyson will be drained mentally and physically as he realizes he can't hurt Ali and gets psyched out. He loses his momentum, lead and the fight itself.

 

I'll go with the vast experience of Ali over the inexperience of Tyson. I think 86 Tyson beats '78 Ali, but not '74 Ali. I'll say late stoppage. Ali would take Tyson out into the deep water (I must be really tired to be quoting Teddy Atlas), and stop him late. No rope-a-dope here. Ali would be big enough to tie Tyson up. I see his hand around the back of Tyson's head too.

 

It's a joke that you think Tyson was only great when he could blow people out. Ruddock gave a past his best Tyson two rough fights that Tyson won, and Bruno came out swinging and rough. Discrediting Tyson for how easily he won at his best is idiotic.

 

Prime Ali beats prime Tyson, but I would favor Tyson in this matchup. Tyson is basically the new and improved, faster and harder hitting Frazier 2.0 and Frazier 1.0 took that version of Ali to the limit and then some.

 

Very possible... also very possible that Ali uses all his guile to survive the tornado and finish on his feet. Interesting matchup.

 

What people are forgeting is that Ali's legs were shopworn at that point in his career. Ali cannot beat Tyson as a stationary target, he needs to move and keep him as busy as possible. Now he'd move for a couple of rounds but IMO not enough to keep Tyson occupied. Tying him up will only delay what would probably be the inevitable; a devastating Tyson TKO. Tyson breaks Ali down in the same manner that he broke down Tyson Biggs; working the body first then moving upstairs. If this fight were possible, people would comment on how on every passing round Tyson looks stronger, faster and even more aggressive. People are mentioning Mitch Green taking Mike the distance but fail to mention that Green fought a fight that would frustrate any come forward fighter, whether its Dempsey, Marciano or Frazier. Tyson kept his cool and instead took the decision. An easy decision I should add. 1986 was a pivotal year in from Jan till Nov. Tyson grew very quickly as a fighter. From the Tillis bout to his first title shot with Berbick we saw a metamorphosis of a young prodigy turn into a great champion.

In this case, Ali wouldnt fight to survive, he'd fight to win and consequently he'd be stopped in about 7-8 rounds tops. Those right hand leads are going to find Tyson the same way they found Foreman. And unlike Frazier - Mike's offense wasnt as reliant on the left hook (esp during 86) so if he took away the left hook it'd be the right hand which is no cupcake.


Any bookie would make Tyson a solid Fav.

IMHO Tyson would STOP THIS version of Ali. And I say that unequivocally.

 

Again, to everyone trotting out the tired argument that Ali's legs were shot in 74: watch the second fight with Frazier. Ali is flying around the ring for almost all of the 12 round fight, and it took place in 74. This whole argument simply does not hold water. It's demonstratively false. He wasn't what he was in 66-67, but he was still a tremendously fast heavyweight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6O4aKbMoHs

Start with that if you have any doubts about this.

 

And the reason he didn't use his legs agaisnt Foreman was because of the effectiveness George had at cutting off the ring. Ali just had the skillset to implement another plan to go to and get a victory in a bout he was a big underdog in & could win w/o the great wheels. Just how many Tyson bouts did anyone see where he implemented another gameplan to figure out a way to win against the elite competition?

 

In real terms, and i dont like this aspect of it, but i gotta be realistic, it is very likely that Ali's mind games absolutely wreck Tyson. Im a huge Tyson fan might i add. Anyhow, as a purist, i'll do this in the event that mind games etc. dont play a part here. Well, I dont think Ali's legs were shot at all, but on the whole he was not the speed demon of earlier times, and still had great stamina, but the stamina he showed early in his career was immense, yet proven in a different way i must admit. I would like to stress that Tyson is far better than Frazier and a totally different proposition to Foreman. The Iron Mike we're considering here opened up his opponents with his great footwork and head movement and was hard to hit flush often. He COULD possibly win this, though for some reason i just think Ali can do it. I'm picking Ali even though my post bigs up Mike, oh i dont know!!!!!!!!


Let me make this easier for myself, prime Ali beats prime Tyson for me, this Tyson beats this Ali in a purist's world imo, but in the event of what would likely happen, Ali would take it here also.

 

Stop comparing his fights that he dominated against Ruddock and Bruno to what Ali would do to him. FACT..When Tyson took alot of punishment he layed his ass down every single time. Stop overrated him. He wasn't the swarmer Frazier was which is what gave Ali trouble.

 

I think Ali would win but the logic of your post is awful.

The first and second sentence of your post are a direct contradiction. You claim that Tyson never could take punishment and win a fight, but also acknowledge that he took beatings from Ruddock and Bruno and still won. That's bad logic.

 

What are Holmes and Spinks?

If you try to say their past their best and that takes away everything, I'll name at least half a dozen HWs whose best win against a fellow great was when he was out of his prime. By that logic Holmes is a bum because he lost to Holyfield and Tyson, the only two greats he faced.

 

Saying Tyson is a bum because he never beat a great in prime fighter is also saying Lewis, Marciano, Dempsey, Holmes, heck even Holyfield is a bum. It's a laughable way for people who despise Tyson to try to discredit him.