95-05 Tyson had no heart

I think tyson beats holyfield prime for prime as he was better at most things holyfield is famed for. He was a better counter puncher, better combination puncher, better speed and better footwork. He was bigger and much more powerful also.

Holyfield was too willing to go to war and anyone going to war with tyson will lose.

Holy has a good chance if he boxes how he did against bowe in the rematch however. That would make for an interesting night.

 

As for tyson having noheart, that's bull****. The only time he quit was against mcbride and a warrior can call it a day whenever he chooses.

The rematch with holy is interesting as that could also be seen as quitting depending on how you look at it.

But a guy with no heart doesn't fight how he did against holy in the 1st. He doesn't fight how did against lewis. Everyone else he destroyed.

 

Lufcrazy.....I SALUTE YOU! :good

 

:good

 

Tyson just didnt have his heart into boxing like he did before jail. Even though Tyson's skills were diminished in the early 90's, he still fought with a lot of desire to win and still had a pretty good skillset in tact.

After jail it just wasnt there anymore and there were tons of reports coming from boxing people that Tyson just couldnt find his timing and rhythem in boxing anymore and I think it showed in most of this performances. He was sloppy, off balance, didnt use a jab or really punch in combination anymore.

A lot of what this thread starter said is true. All that was left was the facade of what was once there and Tyson tried to bull**** his way through fights. The reason Holyfield beat him is he knew Tyson had declined and he wasnt buying into Tyson's act as a bully. Tyson flexed his chest muscles and growled at Holyfield betweem rounds of their first fight and it did nothing to shake Holyfield who had declined terribly himself. He was as exhausted if not more than Tyson but he was still prepared to fight a tough fight and Tyson was not.

You cant be a top fighter fighting once a year and not training. Tyson got away with a lot when he was younger because for the most part he had been active since he was a teenager. The time away from boxing depleted his skills and he never came back properly under the guidance of a solid boxing trainer who could have prevented him from making so many technical errors and picking up so many bad habits.

Tyson was two years into his comeback without even working with a real boxing trainer. Giachetti had him for one fight and Brooks basically started him over and it took him a good two years before Tyson really showed much improvement technically, but his inactivity and weight fluctations were just more proof he wasnt taking it seriously. I think Tyson could have made it back if he wanted to. He got pretty far bullshitting his way through fights. He was still good enough to beat all the guys in the top ten but he knew what it was going to take to be a champion again, and he just didnt have it in him anymore and admitted as much all the way through. Tyson would have presented a very difficult fight for Holyfield in the early 90's and Holyfield knew that too. Holyfield liked to fight just like Tyson did when his opponent engaged him and Tyson was a lot better with his skills, fitness, and timing back in 91.

 

Great point about Holy in the rematch against Bowe.

He fought an educated fight, had a great rhythm and controlled centre ring better with his Jab. Gave Bowe angles, didn't try to fight inside as much and push Bowe back like the first fight.

I still think Bowe was having a great round in the 7th and it took Bowe a while to warm up again after the break.

Still great Tactics from Evander and Manny Steward

 

Yeah i don't think anyone can beat Tyson punch for punch to be honest.

I think he has to be outboxed. The only aggressive fighter I'd favour over him is Louis.

 

A tad over simplified, but there is some degree of truth there.

 

:deal

/Thread.


Jayhaych has also made some solid points as well.

 

Pretty sure he gave Holy some mean bodypunches in that first fight. Don't believe me watch the 5th rd and I think he did a few in the 10th as well. A little heart in 91? Those were wars with Ruddock that both fighters went through hell and weren't really the same afterwards.

In the first fight he also took many punches and if he had no heart he would quit before the second half but no he hung in there got mauled and took his beating like a man. He quit in the second fight but to say he didn't have no heart in the 1st fight is silly to me.

He wasn't used to anyone fighting back towards him since Ruddock I agree with that and that easy competition messed him up going into the Holy fight which was also seen as an easy fight but man they couldn't be anymore wrong. He didn't really give up against Lewis until the 8th but he took a huge beating to get to that point.

 

In his losses to Douglas, Holy and Lewis he showed everyone he had heart.

Thread redundant i think.

 

I'm with my man techks on this :deal

 

It's so obvious the Tyson heartless myth is something real boxing fans would never believe. Go watch more boxing. Please. Ignorance causes this myth to be spread like herpes.

 

Tyson post-prison wasn't prepared to fight mentally. Physically, despite rusting away in prison, he still had something left. But Mentally, he wasn't there. And Technically, he wasn't there.

When Tyson was prepared to fight 100%, Mentally, Physically, Technically...and had a trainer that could prepare him and understand him...gave him a game-plan that helped his confidence...he was top level. It was said before that Tyson takes from those that are around him. He gains/takes whatever personality and confidence they have and uses it.

But without, then he is more likely to get frustrated and mail-it-in. But he'll still fight till the end. Take his ass whooping for the crowd.
The natural instinct to keep standing was there for a while longer after prison. Lewis knocked that last stand out of him.

He was once asked what he liked to do when he was not fighting and he said..."Sex and Drugs."

 

This content is protected

Brooks always held out hope for Iron Mike By Adrian Wojnarowski

Friday, January 25

Brooks always held out hope for Iron Mike
By Adrian Wojnarowski
Special to ESPN.com

This content is protected

Beyond the promise of a series of solid paydays for training Mike Tyson, Tommy Brooks always had a fleeting belief that if he just could reach Tyson, just get him to listen, get him to work, Tyson could still be the best heavyweight fighter in the world.

After all the years, all the disgrace, Brooks was certain Tyson could still do it. Beyond the wild nights, the disgusting, criminal acts, Tommy Brooks believed he could turn the raw rage and punching power into that long-gone 20-year-old machine.

"He's got more talent in his little finger than most all the rest of them," Brooks said. "Even now."

This is the tease of Tyson. This is what keeps everyone coming back again and again.

"(Tyson's) been cutting corners for so long, I'm not sure he knows another way now," Brooks said. "I'm regretful that a guy with so much talent and ability just went down the tubes. That's why I left Evander Holyfield. But if I had any indication that my watch with him would be like this, I would've stayed with Evander."

Looking back, Brooks should've had every indication: There are no happy endings with this man. In the end, there's just disappointment, disillusionment and disgust. On the eve of Tyson playing his part as America's carnival act at a New York news conference Tuesday, there came a call to Brooks' New Jersey office. Tyson fired him. Actually, Tyson's people fired him.

Brooks wasn't surprised. Tyson and the trainer hadn't talked for several months. The fighter is struggling to meet his payroll. After handling Tyson for the six fights since the end of his year-long suspension for flipping out on Holyfield, guess who was going? Do you think it was going to be Tyson's Yes-men enablers, or the trainer unafraid to tell the fighter the painful truth?

"I'm disappointed that I didn't see the guy back to the title," Brooks said. "But I'm relieved that I don't have to deal with the idiots around him anymore. You've got guys backstabbing you, undermining what you're trying to accomplish in the gym. A majority of them didn't see the big picture. They were just living paycheck to paycheck from him."

Which is what most of boxing does with Tyson, feed off him payday to payday. Everybody gets rich on his bad act. With Brooks, Tyson had little chance to beat Lewis. Without him, he has none. Even so, there's a good chance that Tyson never makes it to Vegas on April 6. It's ridiculous to think the melee in Manhattan could be the foundation for the Nevada Boxing Commission refusing to license Tyson.

What, now Tyson's nuts? All of a sudden that proves it? Come on. If they were going to let him fight before Tuesday, they should let him fight now.

"He's crazy like a fox," Brooks said. What people ought to be outraged about with Tyson isn't the staged lunacy of a news conference, but the revelation that charges could be brought against him for an alleged **** in Nevada. Again. This should inspire the rage of the moralists. The press conference? That's what people want out of Tyson, what they come to see, what they expect.

For that alleged victim visiting Tyson's Las Vegas home months ago there are no tidy clips for the nightly news, no x-rated sound bites for the boom mikes. She's an alleged part of Tyson's act, part of his twisted persona, and that didn't seem so important to his Vegas licensing hearing until his WWF moment in New York.

"Every time he's done something, he's come back," Brooks said. "He's like a bus wreck waiting to happen, but he always skirts (trouble). I told him many times, 'We live in a society. They've got rules and ethics, and if you don't conform, they've got a place for you.' They'll only put up with it so long. I hope to God that Mike doesn't get put in that place, because this time, he won't last there."

Perhaps Tyson belongs back in prison. Once more, the criminal justice system will decide. Even without the looming charges, there's this question on the sheer merits of his fight record: Does he deserve a title shot, never mind this ridiculous two-fight series? More than that, does Tyson truly want the fight?

"At times he does and at times, he doesn't," Brooks said. "If he could go fight Lewis and not train, he'd do it. He'd just show up and take his best shot on sheer ability. Mike only trained for two weeks, and he made it 11 rounds with Holyfield."

This is the lure of Tyson. This is the tease. People still think there's one more great fight in him, one final flash of a long ago glory. But there isn't. He's done. Trouble is, it's hard to stop watching him.

Tommy Brooks understands. It's hard resisting the possibilities, harder to truly believe they're gone now. All gone.

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1317765.html