96 Holyfield destroys 86-88 tyson

No, he outpoints Holyfield IMO, the 80s Tyson was a completely different fighter to the 90s one, its almost a different person.

 

The Tyson who threw in combinations and had the almost mythical 'bobbing and weaving' would just tire faster

Savage, Cooper was a warrior there. Those uppercuts :scaredas:

 

I've read a lot of accurate statements and a lot of inaccurate ones. I think I am going to collect the accurate ones for you here in my own words as it pertains to this match-up and others in the story of Holyfield-Tyson.

First off I am going to establish different eras of each fighter.

TYSON

85(not 86)-88 Tyson - Tyson had his first 15 fights in 1985 and was rising to stardom by displaying the very skills that set him apart from everyone else. While this may have been his climb up, he was in peak physical condition which was very important to his success and ability in the right due to his style. So, for all intents and purposes this will be Prime Tyson at his best. One could argue his decline even started in 87-88 honestly. By the time he fought Larry Holmes much of his discipline was evaporating, he was getting out of shape regardless of weight, and his personal life was spiraling out of control. He was holding on though all through 88 even with his life falling apart at the time.

89-91 Tyson - This is Tyson slipping off his perch, not quite as sharp as the guy we watched terrorize the sport from 85-88. The craft wasn't quite there, but the knockout power and intimidation factor still is minus one encounter with Buster Douglas. This is truly the post-Kevin Rooney Tyson that some have referred to here, this split actually occurred in 88. He did have 5 knockouts in 8 fights during this time but the polish had definitely faded. The tools are still in the shed at this point though, waiting to be dusted off a bit. Unfortunately this is when everything started to compound and take its toll. Without the discipline he once had, the guidance and training of Kevin Rooney, and the abuse he was putting on his body outside the ring, this Tyson just wasn't quite as good as the previous version. He was still good enough to basically rule the division though.

95-2000 Tyson - This is the post prison Tyson. Prison took away what could have been 3 good boxing years for Tyson, and this is where we saw just how much it really did take from him. He is not the same weapon that he once was. but he is still "Iron Mike" and he can still knock em' out, he just doesn't have the tools to do it the way he once did. It's all power now. Defense is a second rate commodity for him at this stage and he's taking more punches than he should, but he's also a bit tougher at this age and has a natural confidence that only age and experience can bring. He's a forward plodding fighter always looking for the big punch to end it, no longer paying attention to how it is they are generated.
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HOLYFIELD

84-88 Holyfield - This is the LHW/Cruiserweight Holyfield. Sharp, fast, smooth on his feet, and technically sound. Holyfield was a bona fide legend already at Cruiserweight, putting on amazing matches and dominating the division much in the same fashion as Tyson in the Heavyweights. Holyfield was knocking people out just as frequently and looking beautiful doing it.

88-95 Holyfield - This is the Heavyweight Legend most folks like myself remember. We end and begin an era of Holyfield's career in 88 because this is when he had conquered the Cruiserweight's and moved up to Heavyweight where he would remain for the rest of his career. This Holyfield had all the strengths of the previous version, only he was bigger, stronger, and possibly more courageous as well. He made history in his trilogy of fights with Riddick Bowe, his domination of the heavyweight ranks, and his "Warrior" mentality in the ring. In a land of giants, this natural Cruiserweight defied the odds and the critics by moving up in a division few felt he had any business in, and took the world by storm.

95-2000 Holyfield - This is the battle worn veteran Holyfield. There is no question that after his wars with Bowe, the subsequent heart condition he battled against in his fight with Moorer, as well as the natural aging process of a fighter, this version of Holyfield isn't quite the fighter that he was some odd years ago. He's still got the heart but the skills are slipping a bit. He's smaller than before, not quite as fast, not quite as powerful, the reflexes aren't quite as responsive, but the will and determination are well intact. All the intangible mental and emotional tools made this version of Holyfield special in his own way. He displayed the heart of a champion even with his skills beginning to deteriorate after a long illustrious career. He also beat Mike Tyson.

The Fights will be broken down in Part 2.

 

THE FIGHTS


Now in a discussion of which version of each fighter beats which, I don't think it very fair to just say that one version of either man beats every version of the other. It's just not logical, nor is it in any way factual. That represents the bias and uneducated opinions of those who speak before they think and that is not what we do around here, at least not folks like myself. Realizing that each man had different stages of his career that brought different strengths and weaknesses to the table is essential to finding realistic and logical outcomes to these match-ups. And with that, lets not waste anymore time and get to looking at them.

85-88 Tyson versus 84-88 Holyfield
This fight might sound odd, but would also have likely been the most entertaining of any match-up of these two fighters at any time in their careers possible. Holyfield would be the smaller fighter technically, as he was most of his career, and have to rely on his boxing skills to "out-box" the bigger and very busy Tyson who was unquestionably in his prime. Holyfield was quick enough, fast enough on his feet with good footwork, and technically sound enough to put on a great fight with the Prime Tyson, but one has to conclude that this is a fight Tyson would inevitably win.

Tyson's size advantage, his style of attack, his own speed and footwork, his pure aggression, all his tools would likely be too much for the Cruiserweight Holyfield. I believe Holyfield would have a chance of "out-boxing" Tyson at this time, but it would be a rather slim one. Tyson beat guys then with all the same strengths Holyfield had, and everyone else too. He really was an all time great here and Holyfield while a great in his own right, wasn't ready for a challenge THAT big yet, at least not physically. Tyson would win the physical war at this time and KO Holyfield within 8 rounds.


85-88 Tyson vs 95-2000 Holyfield
Long story short, Tyson wins. This Holyfield didn't have the speed, the power, the legs, or the stamina to hang with Mike in his prime. He's still got great boxing skills, a good jab, loads of heart, a great chin, and invaluable experience, but this version of Holyfield had taken too much punishment, was too advanced in age, and just didn't have the gifts anymore to realistically beat Tyson in his prime. This version of Holyfield was too stationary to avoid the onslaught of offense Prime Tyson brings, and doesn't possess the offensive tools himself to thwart the defensive ability of this Prime Tyson either. Tyson wins via knockout or tko inside of 6 rounds.

89-91 Tyson vs 84-88 Holyfield
This undisciplined, mentally shattered version of Tyson is still a very dangerous man, still a Heavyweight king, and still capable of powering through most guys. What he isn't though, is nearly as technically sound both offensively or defensively. The absence of Kevin Rooney really was such a big deal here and it showed in everything he did and didn't do in the ring. As crazy as it sounds, Cruiserweight Holyfield has a good chance of "out-boxing" this version of Tyson. He's faster on his feet, faster with his hands, hits hard enough, has a strong chin, is defensively sound enough, and because he is much tougher mentally, has all the tools to beat a wilted Mike Tyson. The obvious threats of Tyson are still there, but not nearly the threats they would have been a couple years earlier. This Tyson makes a lot of mistakes, has poor footwork, isn't nearly as active, goes out head-hunting with a one dimensional offense, and isn't fit to go a full 12 rounds of solid boxing. In conclusion, 84-88 Holyfield beats 89-91 Tyson by unanimous decision over the course of a 12 round fight.

89-91 Tyson vs 88-95 Holyfield
This is the fight that would have happened had Tyson not lost to Buster Douglas or went to prison. Holyfield was in great shape, he was on a roll, and he beat everyone else there was to beat. At this time I see no way that Tyson with all the of his faults wins this fight. He doesn't have the mental toughness to withstand the beating, he isn't in good enough shape, and his skills aren't sharp enough. He was likely only lucky that it was Buster Douglas who exposed his true decline rather than Holyfield. This fight ends in similar fashion to the Buster Douglas fight, but Holyfield wins via knockout between the 7th-9th round.

89-91 Tyson vs 95-2000 Holyfield
This is an interesting match up because it represents both guys at less than their best. Holyfield had too much taken out of him by this time to battle Tyson the way he would have in his 88-95 form, and Tyson doesn't have the tools to overcome the boxing skills of Holyfield that the 85-88 version did. Still though, this younger version of Tyson vs the older version of Holyfield wins the day. He doesn't do it in pretty fashion, this one would be ugly because Holyfield could still take a good punch, but he also didn't have the same reflexes, power, speed, or footwork. He got content with being mostly stationary as did the 89-91 Tyson, but the younger, stronger, faster, Tyson wins the slug fest here as the 95-2000 Holyfield tries to stand toe-to-toe and find out that the battles are now showing their scars. Tyson wins this one by split decision in a tough and close 12 round fight, or else he wins by knockout in between rounds 5-8

95-2000 Tyson vs 84-88 Holyfield

This version of Tyson is very interesting. He's in pretty good shape even though he is past his prime, he is still a hard hitter, and he can take an absurd amount of punishment that I doubt either previous version could. He wasn't at his best, but he wasn't at his worst. This Tyson still wanted to win, and he still had something to fight for. The 89-91 Tyson had none of that and it showed in all aspects of his life, not just in the ring. This Tyson however with a reinvigorated purpose was almost as dangerous as the Prime Tyson from 85-88, he just wasn't quite as skilled due to the time he lost in prison. Still, this aggressive and reinvigorated Tyson would be too much of a challenge for the 84-88 Holyfield.

This Tyson may be a head hunter and have abandoned a lot of the fundamentals of boxing, but he's better at head hunting now, he's still very powerful, and he can overwhelm and overpower the smaller Holyfield. This version of Holyfield would be able to put his best boxing to work, he'd be quicker, and he'd be better on his feet, but with this version of Tyson I think it would only be a matter of time before he caught up to him or wore him down and got the best of him. If he doesn't win by KO at any stage of the fight from walking Holyfield down and catching him with a knockout punch, this Tyson has the stuff to take the 84-88 Holyfield to a split decision after Holyfield keeps his distance to avoid the power and doesn't do anything significant in the fight to this version of Tyson.

There is also the possibility that the less mobile Tyson get's out-boxed and is unable to catch the quick, slick young Holyfield and looses a close split decision, so you can really take your pick at which outcome seems most likely to you. I still think this version of Tyson is just deadly enough to win.

95-2000 Tyson vs 88-95 Holyfield
This one should come as no surprise to anyone, 88-95 Holyfield is in every way superior to the 95-2000 Tyson. He wins this fight easily and dominates the whole time. There are a number of fiery exchanges, don't think Tyson goes easily or quietly, but he does go. Holyfield would be too strong for this version of Tyson, way too technically sound, way too tough, and way too active. Holyfield would win this one by knockout in the 8th round.

95-2000 Tyson vs 95-2000 Holyfield
We already saw this one twice and we know the outcome. It couldn't have seemingly went any other way, and Holyfield out boxed, out classed, and out punched Tyson at every pass. This was Holyfield's last truly great fight, and possibly Tyson's last great fight as well. It's only a shame one of them had to lose and that it couldn't have ended up a draw between them on either occasion or both so we didn't have to see either man lose.

I saved this one for last because I think it's the most significant and the most important.

85-88 Tyson vs 88-95 Holyfield
This is the fight the world had wanted to see even though Tyson was already a different guy when the fight was close to happening. Holyfield was the number one contender for two years straight and never got a fight with Tyson while he was still technically in his prime. One would have to presume that Don King had a heavy hand in seeing that it was so for fear of Tyson losing. Either way, this is the true dream match between these two. It was the 85-88 Tyson that everyone expected to see fight Holyfield in 1990 and 1991, but as we know now, that isn't the person who would have arrived.

This fight however, would be a war. Tyson in his prime facing Holyfield in his "Heavyweight Prime" would be a true test for both men. This is one that could go the distance or end in oblivion with either man knocking the other out. I can't rightfully or confidently say which man would win this contest as it does represent both of them in their primes and it is so evenly matched in retrospect. You could give either man the edge in any number of categories based on any given number of reasons, and talk about any number of situations that could occur having either man win. Either way though, it is not a stretch of the imagination or any kind of facts to paint a picture where either man wins. In my eyes, this is a draw.

 

When he didnt have his man out early (which he was able to do quite often), he would tire. It's absolutely exhausting to throw the type of punches with the intentions he did. His defense and work rate both started to erode. I give Holyfield a fair chance to survive the early onslaught - and probably drop the first 3 rounds or so in the process - and that's based on his factual ability to withstand and recuperate against some of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all-time. People tend to believe Tyson wasnt able to tag him several times in their actual meeting simply because Holyfield didnt go crashing to the canvas like most others would. He got the right hand, he got the famed right hook/right uppercut, he got combinations.

 

No.

 

Why can't people seem to understand that Tyson was quick on his feet during his prime?

 

I give you props dude. very impressive and informative.
I agreed with almost everything!

..except 85-88 Tyson vs 88-95 Holyfield.
I give the edge to Tyson.

 

Indeed. Very high quality post.

 

he wasnt shot after rooney left but his work ethic and discipline was gone. it is very apparent. and you are right, that is his own problem.

but in the long run , i imagine critics care more about his losses and shortcomings than he does.

his accomplishments outweigh the negatives .

 

this is man vs. boy...never would mike get to evander

in the 84 olympic trials holy gave mike the business in sparring

hell he could still be the crusierwight champ...well...lol

he made the leap to HW to get to mike...

evander was just as fast as mike from a,b,c range

he was a better counter puncher

could adapt..mike never could

was so far mentally superior...thats what most miss...he always knew he could beat mike

he always wanted mike tyson...

evander to this day still has that fire at forty ****in nine...mike never had it like that nor wanted it like that...

evander holyfield still walks around wanting to be the HWC...would fight VK in the front yard and WK in around back for the TITLE...

evander holyfield is the real monster for mike tyson that cus couldnt warn him about...u know why...cus never seen that fighter...there i no one like him...

Evander Holyfield

Real Deal...:bbb

 

Well, it is a joke as to the lengths of which Holyfield was utterly and thoroughly unintimidated by Tyson. He's certainly not the one to blame for why they didnt fight much sooner than '96 when he was considered a shot fighter.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMS2bV377Ak&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMS2bV377Ak&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

 

More than likely, Holyfield was slightly faded when they fought, wasn't quite the fighter who gave us the trilogy with Rid**** Bowe, throw the kitchen sink at Holyfield and he'll hit you back, takes Tyson's best shots and stretches him during the middle rounds, no question.....
:hi:

 

Because a fighter from 86 is going to be the same fighter a decade later

 

When did Tyson ever tire pre prison?

Not ONCE.

In fact the first time Tyson ever showed any stamina issues was round 4 vs Holyfield in 96.

Prior to facing Holyfield, Tyson had fought in 7 incomplete rounds in 5 years.