A 38 year Vitali throws over 800 punches in 10 rounds !

You still don't get it....Do you have empirical evidence for that number or are you just pulling it out of your ass ? 5% , can you actually demonstrate how ? Or is it once again , simply based on your personal opinion ?

 

How about you demonstrate a reason why he has a more than 5% chance? It's the same principle. Boxing is about logical opinion, so I'm allowed mine, the problem with most Vitali Klitschko fans is that 98% of the time it isn't logical at all.

 

I'm not American, so what does that have to do with anything. I'm not picking him because he's American.

 

So you're calling Ali 'hype'? Likewise you don't have to be Ukrainian to get sucked into the Vitali hype, just something similiar, like oh, I don't know, German?

 

No ..I'm not gonna do that because the burden of proof is on the claimant. Not the other way around.

I'm not the one claiming 5% nor am i claiming that he'd win 90% or 100%.

My position is reasonable. Yours isn't. I'm saying that it wouldn't be far fetched...Vitali , beating any of the past ATG wouldn't automatically be an absolute impossibility. I'm not pretending to know for sure. (unlike you) I don't have that arrogance.

You're now claiming 5%...I'm asking you , is that a fact ? do you have any empirical evidences ? If so , demonstrate them.

Again , my atheist vs creationist analogy that you were dismissing was more than fitting.

The burden of proof is on the claimant of the positive claim that an entity X does exist.

 

He is!

 

I'm sure Tommy can speak for himself but obviously there is no ****ing empirical evidence that a fighter from this decade would win or lose to one from 2 generations before. However this is not a ****ing philosophy forum it's a boxing one. Ali had better handspeed than Klitschko, better footwork, better timing, better movement, better timing, consistently faced and beat a better quality of opponent, was more adaptable than Vitali, had a greater range of punches and combinations, had a better defence and was harder to hit etc so without discussing trancendental phenomenology, writing an essay on solipsism or talking a load of crap about athiesm it is perfectly reasonable to say Ali had the tools to beat Vitali Klitschko on a ****ing boxing forum.

How do you know that life isn't a dream and Vitali winning last night wasn't just a figment of your imagination?

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Apart from the fact he didn't, do you have empirical evidence that Vitali would have won on points had the fight lasted another 6 rounds.

I have empirical evidence that Vitali lost the fight and empirical evidence that you are talking shite, namely the video of the fight where they announce Lennox Lewis as the winner at the end.

 

Cool reply

 

very impressive stat. the guy is a ****in beast.

 

Vitaly vs the Heavyweight ATG's is actually a very interesting topic. I think VK vs Mike Tyson is a 60/40 fight in favour of Tyson, no more.

VK has an outside shot vs Ali and would most likely beat a prime Foreman on points...just IMHO.

 

I, too, saw this and was shocked. The dude is a phenomenon. He wasn't even breathing hard as when he fought Gomez.

 

very impressive

 

Correct. That's why i'm asking for evidences. When a fan arrogantly pretends to know with absolute certainty something unverifiable. We all share different opinions , nothing more.

You don't need a philosophy forum to correct bull**** with basic logic.

And yet all these advantages weren't enough to stop the 188 lbs Henry Cooper from almost knocking him out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnEDM4EC5kw

Is it really far fetched to believe that a skilled (and awkward) 6′ 7½ tall guy with a 92.5% KO ratio has reasonable chances to beat any of the past ATG including Ali ?....and when i'm saying skilled...it's no "Jess Willard" type skilled....if you know what i mean..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFHAFNTjcSE
It's not just his size.... This one , like Lennox has the size + the skills.

So , vitali has no reasonable chances ?

Why ? Is it because of his loss against Lennox Lewis ? (a fight he was clearly winning before the cut stoppage) ...(and keep in mind Lennox , unlike Cooper is a 6'5 tall guy with a reach of 84 , not even Foreman , Holmes , Frazier , Marciano , Bowe , Holyfield to name a few..had that reach advantage)...

Or is it because of his loss against the smaller Chris Byrd ? (again , a guy he was clearly beating , but he was still forced to retire after nine rounds due to a shoulder injury suffered in the 2nd round)

Don't get me wrong , i'm not saying that size & strength it the ultimate weapon & advantage for a boxer...As i was saying earlier , Lennox himself had a questionable victory against the smaller Ray Mercer.

Boxing is more than just size , reach & athleticism. Endurance , workrate & a fighter's heart...can also be a huge advantage. (Marciano proved it. So did Buster Douglas , Mercer and holyfield and a few others)

Which brings us to the "heart/endurance" dilema.
Is that guy , (vitali) a quitter ?...is the guy's workrate mediocre ?

I maintain that my position is reasonable enough. I'm not acting like a deluded fanboy defending his hero nor claiming that he would have zero chances. All i'm saying , is that it's fair , and realistic for a guy like this to not only be a legit challenge for any of the past ATGs...But to also dominate them.

No one is saying that he's the GOAT , or that he should be ranked in the top 5 , or top 10 ATG...Hell , you can exclude him of the top 100 , it's still irrelevant as far as his chances are concerned. Him , not being part of any ATG list doesn't change his chances to beat any of the past greats...

Non sequitur.

atsch

Agreed. I never said the contrary , however , it's also reasonable to think otherwise. What i don't agree with , is the absolute , irrefutable certainty...If you're gonna say "there's no way" he'd beat this or that fighter...Back it up with empirical evidence.

 

Vitali has always been able to do this. The thing is he gets tired very quickly, or at least looks it, but can fight tired very well.

Vitali fights in a style he was not born to. He doesn't have the speed or agility but he does have the height, reach and power to pull it off.

He is quite the technician minus his lack of co-ordination due to him being a lanky string of ****.