A comparison of Liston and Usyk's best opponents

You've started an incredible 70 threads on Usyk. Safe to say there's a teeny bit of investment there and i'd say it's some sort of record.

Where do you have Marciano in you top 10 heavyweights? I reckon Usyk thread #71 should be a similar comparison to Marciano as this one. Big chance you'll be able to get Usyk above him per the same criteria of this thread so if you have Marciano top 10 you'd certainly have him in on your own list.

 

McGrain had Marciano #3 from memory so it's certainly a reasonable opinion. He'd be comfortably in my 10.

I'm interested to see where Usyk ends up P4P more than anything. His biggest problem is how little they fight nowadays but he did cram a lot of high level cruiserweights in and he's got a few decent heavyweights in there now.

If you mean your logic on rating Marciano, sure there's no flaw. On the other topic tho it will never stand up not even in the future.

 

The argument in favour of Usyk pivots on weight equivalency but there’s an obvious lack of uniformity in application.

For one example. Spinks weighed 212 1/4 lbs when he beat Holmes.

Why describe Spinks as a LHW when he weighed a full 37 1/4 lbs above the LHW limit when he defeated Holmes?

When he beat Haye, Bellew weighed 213 1/2 lbs and 210 1/2 lbs respectively. That’s a heavier Bellew than Usyk defeated.

We can’t assume what Bellew’s weight was when, as an officially weighed CW, he climbed into the ring against Olek.

Do we have “event weights” for their match?

Atop that, if there was notable dehydration and rehydration process involved, Bellew didn’t have to endure same when he faced Haye.

Not all CWs dry out to fit the division and those that do, wouldn’t be potentially compromised by doing so when fighting in the open cheque HW division.

Also, when a similar comparison of respective opposition was presented previously, I highlighted the lack of address of actual complexions and outcomes for the fights being compared.

On the previous occasion, per the equal number of fights that were put up for each fighter, the average number of rounds required for Liston to win were notably less than that of Usyk - which is obviously a relevant consideration when comparing resumes.

If Patterson was Liston’s best opponent, while pointing to Floyd’s weight as an implied detractor, it’s completely remiss not to factor the manner in which Liston won both fights.

Quick refresh. Both wins via emphatic first round knockouts - taking just 2 mins 6 secs and 2 mins 10 secs respectively for Sonny to put Floyd down for the FULL count - which no other opponent of Patterson’s, before or since, ever managed to do.

Also, while their quality is open for discussion, Floyd himself had several wins over larger opponents in excess of 200 lbs, including some weighing in and around 220 lbs.

 

The real question is how highly ranked cruiserweights nowadays would do compared to the heavyweight division in Liston's day. Fact is, most of them would be on the large side

 

Yup I came to the same conclusion when I tried adding in his cruiserweight record to his heavyweight achievements.

 

A sensible decision.

 

You can’t take Usyk’s body of work in the cruiserweight division and apply it to a legacy position at heavyweight. That’s not how the sport works. It’s why you never see Ezzard Charles as the greatest heavyweight who ever lived.
Listen I understand your point that - cruiser weights today are bigger and sometimes better than say the men in the heavyweight division that Liston fought and beat but that’s not how divisional accomplishment rankings work.
Usyk’s claim to fame at heavyweight right now is this - he beat the Best heavyweight in the division whom was undefeated and he twice beat the second best heavyweight in the division and he gave away height, reach and a lot of weight in all 3 bouts. And both those guys likely are hall of famers. Extremely impressive on its own merits.

 

People on this thread can take a hint.

 

But a ranked fighter in a lower division often does not make waves in a higher one.

 

I think there are 10 men I can rank above Marciano , so he sits outside my top ten. I do put a lot of emphasis on H2H.

 

Spinks was heavyweight and unbeaten.
Beating Charr is nothing to shout about.
Huck is known for a close loss whoope de doo!