A comparison of Liston and Usyk's best opponents

Out of curiosity do you think heavyweights of the 1920s/1930s could beat todays cruiserweights or even light heavyweights H2H? Genuinely curious. Say we take the top 20 of each era and have them square off.

Say top 20 heavyweights of 1935-1942 vs top 20 cruiserweights 2015-2022 and top 20 light heavyweights for the same period.

 

Louis was 30's so of course they could. Dempsey might go ok. I'm not overly fussed much with the heavies pre Louis.

Not all of the heavies would win but loads would.

I'd take Conn and Lewis against the current light heavies too.

 

I'm genuinely curious to see your top 10 ATGs at heavy, since cruiserweights are now fair game apparently.

 

These are your quoted words from this thread:-

“If Homes beat Briedis or Gassiev either would be better than most of the sorry bums he beat. I don't care if you disagree.”

“It's sure better than losing to Michael Spinks or Marty Marshal.”

“I'll take Briedis and Gassiev against most of the bums Holmes defended against, and Usyk never lost to a LHW like Larry.”

I would say the above comments were directly impugning Larry Holmes and in no way were they a positive upholding of Michael Spinks’ own upper division achievement.

As to the fights you referenced and associated queries, I don’t see how they are analogous/relevant to the discussion and contentions at hand.

 

Of course these fights "matter" & they contribute to each fighters resume in the weight division the fights were contested at, as well as each fighter's entire career resume from a p4p perspective.

For all time weight divisional rankings:

• No single fight should contribute towards a fighters resume in more than one weight division.
• Each fight is assigned as contributing towards a fighters resume in a single, specific weight division.
• The heavier fighter determines the weight division in which the fight is contested (obviously).

Louis beat Conn in a HW contest, it contributes to both fighters HW resume. Maxim beat SRR in a LHW contest, it contributes to both fighters LHW resume. And so on.

Btw, there are a couple of incidental errors within the detail you've provided in some of the other examples you seek clarification on:

1) Greb was not "under the MW limit" for either of his 1923 contests against Gene Tunney, he scaled 165.5lbs & 171.5lbs respectively for those fights. That is immaterial to the weight division the fight was contested at, though, which was LHW as the heavier fighter weighed 174lbs & 175lbs respectively.
2) Walker did not "come in under the middleweight limit" vs Loughran, he weighed 165lbs. That is immaterial to the weight division the fight was contested at, though, which was LHW as the heavier fighter weighed 173.5lbs.

For all time p4p rankings - Every fight each fighter contested, in all weight divisions, contribute to their entire career resumes.

So:

• The fights Usyk contested at CW, contribute towards his resume & ranking at CW only.
• The fights Usyk contested at HW, contribute towards his resume & ranking at HW only.
• All of Usyk's pro fights contribute towards his entire career resume and ranking from a p4p perspective.

 

No. You've been saying something quite different and are now most decidedly attempting to distance yourself from the case you were making originally.


From Page 1 and stated clearly:

Your response:

Soon after, I sought clarification:

Your response:

Still only on page 4:

Your response:

Now, even a post you applaud expresses the very same concerns:

Isn't it time you simply acknowledged that Usyk's wins against rated Cruiserweights cannot be considered wins against rated Heavyweights and, therefore, do not contribute to a resume-based Heavyweight comparison?

 

you forgot

clark 9

 

I'm not gonna lie this argument that keeps getting brought up in regards to Usyk's Cruiserweight fights being used for his Heavyweight resume has been annoying me aswell.

It seems like this narrative has been created solely because of Usyk, I never see anyone using Haye's Cruiserweight achievements for example to heighten his Heavyweight resume.

It's simple really the Cruiserweight division has a weight limit capped off at 200 pounds the Heavyweight division does not.

 

Both men were great. Interesting how close the opponents were. Actually this is a fight would love to c as Usyk would be facing a big puncher who has decent stamina.

Some excellent points via posters on both sides…hard to take cruiser wins seriously some say when they aren’t in the hw mix…maybe it’s the heavies who r lucky the cruisers r no longer in the mix? As one has came in and took over. I like the argument for both sides there.

 

You can believe what you want but no one else on this forum ever used this argument before for other fighters.

Like I said no one on this forum ever used Haye's Cruiserweight achievements to further his Heavyweight resume it seems to be only now for Usyk people are using this argument consistently.

Yeah Heavyweights were smaller on average years ago I still don't see what that has to do with Usyk though it's called different eras.

Just because some Heavyweights 60 years ago were the size of some of the big Cruiserweights now well simply its because a Cruiserweight division didn't exist then. But Heavyweights were still fighting in a weightclass with no weight limit cap like the Cruiserweight division. We rate fighters based on their own era and a Cruiserweight division didn't even exist then so it's a bit baffling trying to compare the sport from 60 years ago to now to make a case for Usyk's Heavyweight resume.

Usyk beat fighters in a Cruiserweight division with the weight limit capped off at 200 pounds and that has absolutely nothing to do with his Heavyweight resume.