A fair Honest Accesement of Pac-Man and Floyd

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Da Chin Chekka, Nov 1, 2009.


  1. Da Chin Chekka

    Da Chin Chekka Chi-Town!!! Full Member

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    Long read but good!!!

    by:

    Joshuwa
    "Ashyknuckles"
    Jernigan


    It is the love-hate relationship of top boxing superstars that spark arguments between hardcore fight fans. If you knew absolutely nothing about the sport of boxing it wouldn't take long to realize that the bulk of conversation taking place on the internet revolves around the two top celebrity fighters, Floyd "Money" Mayweather and Manny "PacMan" Pacquiao.

    The debates regarding these two fighters begin as rational discussions among knowledgeable fight fans, but usually result as intense arguments. If you make points that favor Manny Pacquiao, then you are instantly labeled as a "*******," which is a combination of a Pacquiao fan and a ******. Harsh, huh? Well, if you refute any of the points made by Pacquiao fans you are labeled a "Floyd Gayweather nutthugger.

    " As a die hard fan of both fighters, I assure you, in these particular debates there is no way you would be perceived as such. And, there is the always popular, "You know nothing about boxing" label, which is commonly spewed by the person who adds the least to the conversation, because they obviously know nothing about boxing.

    Speaking of labels, many fans swear that Mayweather is boring, ducks tough opposition, and would lose the moment he decides to "grow a pair" and fight someone with a pulse. On the flipside, every time Pacquiao fights, people declare him to be the most exciting fighter in boxing, fights the most dangerous opponents available, and is the best fighter in the game. Floyd is hated because people believe he fights opponents that he knows he'll beat. My question is, what fighter doesn't believe they're going to be victorious when entering the ring? So, in essence, Floyd Mayweather is guilty of what every elite professional fighter is guilty of, believing in his abilities.

    We all love Manny Pacquiao, but has he really faced the most dangerous opposition available? If Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton are considered soft opposition for Floyd Mayweather Jr, then how did they immediately become the type of opponents that placed Manny Pacquiao above Floyd Mayweather on the pound-for-pound list? The common rebuttal is to that question is, "they were bigger than Manny." Well, they were bigger than Floyd too. The last time I checked, Floyd went up to 154lbs to fight Oscar De La Hoya at his optimum weight. And, in between fights, Ricky Hatton is known to walk around at 185lbs, hence the disparaging epithet "Ricky Fatton." Also, can you imagine the backlash if Floyd Mayweather would have fought David Diaz on PPV, especially when a Juan Diaz and Joel Casamayor are also available in the same division?

    The reason for the love-hate relationship for these fighters is the storylines, or lack thereof, leading into a megafight. People love Manny Pacquiao because he's not always the favorite to win fights, especially when going up in weight. He began his career as a light flyweight, so obviously people believe he's naturally too small to compete against larger opponents. And it is because of this fact that compelling storylines are created, which generates interest in his fights. But, it's the way he wins these outings that make people develop such an attachment to the Filipino powerhouse. The same can't said be about Floyd Mayweather. With the exception of his last two outings, Floyd Mayweather has always been in fights where he was the smaller guy. Nevertheless, people always expected Floyd Mayweather to win.

    There are no interesting storylines leading into a Mayweather fight. It's just the same ole' story, Floyd will win by easily outboxing Opponent "A." That's why he is consistenly ridiculed for not facing credible opposition, or for cherry picking opponents. The fact is Floyd Mayweather is facing credible opposition. However, it's because he's more naturally talented than everyone else that he's held to a higher standard.

    With the type of skill he displays in every outing, it's only natural for people to believe him fighting a much bigger opponent is the only way for him to be truely tested in the ring. People go as far as to say that Mayweather is ducking Shane Mosley. Shane Mosley is coming off of the most impressive victory in his career by stopping Antonio Margarito and becoming the new WBA welterweight champion. But, it was the storylines leading into that fight that made it such a legacy defining win. Prior to that fight, most pundits were in agreement that "Sugar" Shane Mosley was shot, and that the best of Mosley has come and gone.

    Again, this is a situation where excitement was generated because the winner of the fight was expected to lose. However, did that victory some how take away the five or six lackluster outings prior to that fight? Did Mosley's recent triumph erase the fact that he's 38 years old? While I would love to see a Mosley vs Mayweather matchup, it will still be the same ole' story leading into the fight. Mayweather will be the favorite to win, and he will most likely win by outboxing the older Mosley.

    So, why is it such a credible fight at this juncture, especially since Miguel Cotto not long ago proved that Shane Mosley can, in fact, be outboxed? Why is a potential fight with Manny Pacquiao such a credible fight when Juan Manuel Marquez proved that timing and effective counter-punching can give Pacquiao fits in the ring? If Floyd Mayweather is the best counter-puncher in boxing, would it not be conceivable that Mayweather would do the same thing to Pacquiao, if not, worse? Plus, he's naturally bigger than Pacquiao, just like he was naturally larger than Juan Manuel Marquez.

    People want to see Mayweather against an opponent who they believe has a chance at winning. The problem with that, is the same people always find a way to discredit the victory once Floyd has proven his skills are far more superior. Who exactly can Floyd Mayweather fight that's credible, and if he wins, the victory can't be criticized? Pacquiao? He's too small. Mosley? He's too old. Paul Williams? He lost too much muscle mass trying to make
    weight. Andre Berto? He's too green. Miguel Cotto? Margarito ruined him when he fought him. Joshua Clottey? No, he's overrated. He's Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito's leftovers. Isaac Hlatshwayo? He's a bum. That list completes the who's who of the welterweight division.

    Floyd will face criticism for facing one of the fighters aforementioned, but will he most certainly avoid deprecation if he faced several of them. So, my recommendation is for Floyd to fight the best the division has to offer. Don't waste your time trying to make every potential match a calculated business decision. When Mayweather was a Super Featherweight, a Lightweight, and a Super Lightweight he would constantly say, "I just want to fight the best they got out there." My advice is practice what you preach, and in the end you will be appreciated. Until then, you will always be scorned as a fighter who wouldn't take chances in the latter half of your legendary career.
     
  2. JuanMa

    JuanMa business as usual Full Member

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    Jun 26, 2009
    Good read. :good
     
  3. boxsensei

    boxsensei Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Excellent article homie!:good
     
  4. aaron

    aaron Active Member Full Member

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    Sep 20, 2009
    Great material !!!
     
  5. Da Chin Chekka

    Da Chin Chekka Chi-Town!!! Full Member

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    Yeah i though it was pretty good and most of all fair...
     
  6. Trixie

    Trixie Active Member Full Member

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    Oct 11, 2009
    I have to disagree with this article on a number of counts, but let's start here:

    Floyd is hated because people believe he fights opponents that he knows he'll beat. My question is, what fighter doesn't believe they're going to be victorious when entering the ring? So, in essence, Floyd Mayweather is guilty of what every elite professional fighter is guilty of, believing in his abilities.

    The issue is that Floyd with the exception of ODH, fights people that he is overqualified for. It isn't a level playing field when he fights Juan Manuel Marquez at WW. Yes he is a better fighter and yes he deserves to win, but he also deserves the backlash. Pacquiao also fights people he believes he will beat but him having a rather obvious weight advantage is in no part a reason for this self-belief.

    When he Floyd goes into the ring believing he will win, it is one part because he believes he is the better boxer and one part because he has a large size advantage. When boxers that are respected go into the ring believing he will win, it is only because they believe they are the better boxer.

    I am a Floyd fan. A huge one. But this, unfortunately, is true.
     
  7. o_money

    o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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    This content is protected

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  8. o_money

    o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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    I think if you added your comment to mine you'd pretty much sum up how i feel on this article.
     
  9. des3995

    des3995 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fair assessment. I must admit, halfway thru I thought you were a Floyd Gayweather Nuthugger in disguise, but your closing remarks dispelled that. I think the one missed point is that it seems Floyd is so careful picking his opposition in order to protect his "o". For better or worse, Pacman doesnt have that to consider. The fact does remain, however, the elite of Floyd's division are out there and he conveniently retires or won't fight them....whatever his reasons. We as boxing fans are the ones who suffer.
     
  10. war4years

    war4years Well-Known Member Full Member

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    floyd needs to fight these guys:

    Miguel Cotto

    Paul Williams (if he's available at 147)

    Shane Mosely

    He should definitely fight those guys whether he's favored to win or not.

    Being favored over someone doesn't mean he shouldn't fight them. I think Floyd/Mosely would be competitive. I would favor floyd, but it should be a nice fight. I think Floyd/williams is intriguing. I would favor floyd in that too, but it would be fun to watch. I would favor floyd over cotto due to his superior movement/speed; however, it would be interesting to see the fight.

    Floyd/Marquez is not interesting. Few thought JMM would be competitive, and fewer thought he would win. That's boring. I feel like a fool for buying the PPV frankly, and I won't buy another of Floyd's unless he fights someone who can make it interesting.


    PS. I think the fight against DLH was great. It was an intriguing fight. There was belief that DLH might beat him, and the fight itself was competitive. Those are the kind of fights I like to see Floyd in.

    Pac has fought some guys who everyone felt he would beat, ie diaz, hatton; however, he mixes it up with guys who the public thinks have a chance - DLH and now Cotto.

    That's why Pac is more respected and beloved than PBF. It's not that complicated.
     
  11. o_money

    o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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    Yeah totally agree. Thats why its really special when we get a guy like mosely. Cause you know he'd never retire so that he could skip the poorly paying fights against dangerous opponents and go striaght to the better paying ones. You know he'd just take what money he could and fight whatever dude was there to be fought.
     
  12. war4years

    war4years Well-Known Member Full Member

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    other guys i would enjoy seeing floyd fight are Kermit Cintron and Josh Clottey. Those are "B" players, so I don't blame him for not fighting those guys, but it would be fun to watch.
     
  13. war4years

    war4years Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think that's why people don't get in shane's ass for taking steroids. He fights anyone. Do you really think Floyd would have fought someone like Winky when Shane did? No way in hell. Floyd would have ducked Forrest too. These are high risk/low reward fights. Floyd does not take those, and that's why Shane is more beloved by hard-core fans than Floyd will ever be.

    Once again, it's not that complicated.
     
  14. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    When Floyd was retired, Marquez was nowhere near anyone's list of credible Floyd comeback opponents. I'm not talking after he announced it, but before. So its not like people taking away credit AFTER Floyd wins. Before the fight was even announced, noone thought it would be a good win. At a catchweight, I thought it would still be a tough fight for Floyd because i knew he would be struggling to make the weight. At WW? different story.

    You know what, I still give Floyd credit for that win. I thought it was pretty impressive considering he limited Marquez to only 1 round. But when I saw Marquez go down from that short little left hook in the 2nd round I knew right away the size difference was a big deal.

    Yet Floyd still gets a whole shitload of credit for beating Marquez despite making him move up 2 divisions and not respecting the catchweight. And thats despite the fact that most people think Marquez would lose to any of the top10 welterweights.

    In the meantime, Pacquiao gets lambasted for wanting to fight Cotto at a 145lbs catchweight. Can you imagine the praise Marquez would get for fighting Cotto at 145? Cotto would be called a cherrypicker.

    Its a double-standard. Pac does 10x more than Floyd but they are both perceived on the same level, some people even claiming that Floyd is a better p4p fighter.
     
  15. o_money

    o_money Boxing Junkie banned

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    Yup easier to respect a brave cheater then a rich coward....doesn't always make sense but **** thats he way it is.