A fair Honest Accesement of Pac-Man and Floyd

rushman · Nov 1, 2009

o_money said: ↑

Yup easier to respect a brave cheater then a rich coward....doesn't always make sense but **** thats he way it is.
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That puts it in harsh but correct perspective.

People want to see fireworks. They will forgive a lot for anyone who gives them those fireworks.

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

Trixie said: ↑

I have to disagree with this article on a number of counts, but let's start here:

Floyd is hated because people believe he fights opponents that he knows he'll beat. My question is, what fighter doesn't believe they're going to be victorious when entering the ring? So, in essence, Floyd Mayweather is guilty of what every elite professional fighter is guilty of, believing in his abilities.

The issue is that Floyd with the exception of ODH, fights people that he is overqualified for. It isn't a level playing field when he fights Juan Manuel Marquez at WW. Yes he is a better fighter and yes he deserves to win, but he also deserves the backlash. Pacquiao also fights people he believes he will beat but him having a rather obvious weight advantage is in no part a reason for this self-belief.

When he Floyd goes into the ring believing he will win, it is one part because he believes he is the better boxer and one part because he has a large size advantage. When boxers that are respected go into the ring believing he will win, it is only because they believe they are the better boxer.

I am a Floyd fan. A huge one. But this, unfortunately, is true.
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Floyd is outweighed for most of his fights. This is a fact....

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

war4years said: ↑

floyd needs to fight these guys:

Miguel Cotto

Paul Williams (if he's available at 147)

Shane Mosely

He should definitely fight those guys whether he's favored to win or not.

Being favored over someone doesn't mean he shouldn't fight them. I think Floyd/Mosely would be competitive. I would favor floyd, but it should be a nice fight. I think Floyd/williams is intriguing. I would favor floyd in that too, but it would be fun to watch. I would favor floyd over cotto due to his superior movement/speed; however, it would be interesting to see the fight.

Floyd/Marquez is not interesting. Few thought JMM would be competitive, and fewer thought he would win. That's boring. I feel like a fool for buying the PPV frankly, and I won't buy another of Floyd's unless he fights someone who can make it interesting.

PS. I think the fight against DLH was great. It was an intriguing fight. There was belief that DLH might beat him, and the fight itself was competitive. Those are the kind of fights I like to see Floyd in.

Pac has fought some guys who everyone felt he would beat, ie diaz, hatton; however, he mixes it up with guys who the public thinks have a chance - DLH and now Cotto.

That's why Pac is more respected and beloved than PBF. It's not that complicated.
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That a very fair assessment...:yep

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

PH|LLA said: ↑

When Floyd was retired, Marquez was nowhere near anyone's list of credible Floyd comeback opponents. I'm not talking after he announced it, but before. So its not like people taking away credit AFTER Floyd wins. Before the fight was even announced, noone thought it would be a good win. At a catchweight, I thought it would still be a tough fight for Floyd because i knew he would be struggling to make the weight. At WW? different story.

You know what, I still give Floyd credit for that win. I thought it was pretty impressive considering he limited Marquez to only 1 round. But when I saw Marquez go down from that short little left hook in the 2nd round I knew right away the size difference was a big deal.

Yet Floyd still gets a whole shitload of credit for beating Marquez despite making him move up 2 divisions and not respecting the catchweight. And thats despite the fact that most people think Marquez would lose to any of the top10 welterweights.

In the meantime, Pacquiao gets lambasted for wanting to fight Cotto at a 145lbs catchweight. Can you imagine the praise Marquez would get for fighting Cotto at 145? Cotto would be called a cherrypicker.

Its a double-standard. Pac does 10x more than Floyd but they are both perceived on the same level, some people even claiming that Floyd is a better p4p fighter.
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Dude I remember reading well over a couple hundred post where Floyd was pounded on for taking that fight. I know you read a lot of them too.

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

o_money said: ↑

Yup easier to respect a brave cheater then a rich coward....
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I disagree with the first part of your statement but I totally agree 100% with the last part

boxbox · Nov 2, 2009

Da Chin Chekka said: ↑

Long read but good!!!

by:

Joshuwa
"Ashyknuckles"
Jernigan

The debates regarding these two fighters begin as rational discussions among knowledgeable fight fans, but usually result as intense arguments. If you make points that favor Manny Pacquiao, then you are instantly labeled as a "*******," which is a combination of a Pacquiao fan and a ******. Harsh, huh? Well, if you refute any of the points made by Pacquiao fans you are labeled a "Floyd Gayweather nutthugger.

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Speaking of labels, many fans swear that Mayweather is boring, ducks tough opposition, and would lose the moment he decides to "grow a pair" and fight someone with a pulse. On the flipside, every time Pacquiao fights, people declare him to be the most exciting fighter in boxing, fights the most dangerous opponents available, and is the best fighter in the game. Floyd is hated because people believe he fights opponents that he knows he'll beat. My question is, what fighter doesn't believe they're going to be victorious when entering the ring? So, in essence, Floyd Mayweather is guilty of what every elite professional fighter is guilty of, believing in his abilities.

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We all love Manny Pacquiao, but has he really faced the most dangerous opposition available? If Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton are considered soft opposition for Floyd Mayweather Jr, then how did they immediately become the type of opponents that placed Manny Pacquiao above Floyd Mayweather on the pound-for-pound list? The common rebuttal is to that question is, "they were bigger than Manny." Well, they were bigger than Floyd too. The last time I checked, Floyd went up to 154lbs to fight Oscar De La Hoya at his optimum weight. And, in between fights, Ricky Hatton is known to walk around at 185lbs, hence the disparaging epithet "Ricky Fatton." Also, can you imagine the backlash if Floyd Mayweather would have fought David Diaz on PPV, especially when a Juan Diaz and Joel Casamayor are also available in the same division?

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The reason for the love-hate relationship for these fighters is the storylines, or lack thereof, leading into a megafight. People love Manny Pacquiao because he's not always the favorite to win fights, especially when going up in weight. He began his career as a light flyweight, so obviously people believe he's naturally too small to compete against larger opponents. And it is because of this fact that compelling storylines are created, which generates interest in his fights. But, it's the way he wins these outings that make people develop such an attachment to the Filipino powerhouse. The same can't said be about Floyd Mayweather. With the exception of his last two outings, Floyd Mayweather has always been in fights where he was the smaller guy. Nevertheless, people always expected Floyd Mayweather to win.

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There are no interesting storylines leading into a Mayweather fight. It's just the same ole' story, Floyd will win by easily outboxing Opponent "A." That's why he is consistenly ridiculed for not facing credible opposition, or for cherry picking opponents. The fact is Floyd Mayweather is facing credible opposition. However, it's because he's more naturally talented than everyone else that he's held to a higher standard.

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With the type of skill he displays in every outing, it's only natural for people to believe him fighting a much bigger opponent is the only way for him to be truely tested in the ring. People go as far as to say that Mayweather is ducking Shane Mosley. Shane Mosley is coming off of the most impressive victory in his career by stopping Antonio Margarito and becoming the new WBA welterweight champion. But, it was the storylines leading into that fight that made it such a legacy defining win. Prior to that fight, most pundits were in agreement that "Sugar" Shane Mosley was shot, and that the best of Mosley has come and gone.

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Again, this is a situation where excitement was generated because the winner of the fight was expected to lose. However, did that victory some how take away the five or six lackluster outings prior to that fight? Did Mosley's recent triumph erase the fact that he's 38 years old? While I would love to see a Mosley vs Mayweather matchup, it will still be the same ole' story leading into the fight. Mayweather will be the favorite to win, and he will most likely win by outboxing the older Mosley.

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So, why is it such a credible fight at this juncture, especially since Miguel Cotto not long ago proved that Shane Mosley can, in fact, be outboxed? Why is a potential fight with Manny Pacquiao such a credible fight when Juan Manuel Marquez proved that timing and effective counter-punching can give Pacquiao fits in the ring? If Floyd Mayweather is the best counter-puncher in boxing, would it not be conceivable that Mayweather would do the same thing to Pacquiao, if not, worse? Plus, he's naturally bigger than Pacquiao, just like he was naturally larger than Juan Manuel Marquez.

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People want to see Mayweather against an opponent who they believe has a chance at winning. The problem with that, is the same people always find a way to discredit the victory once Floyd has proven his skills are far more superior. Who exactly can Floyd Mayweather fight that's credible, and if he wins, the victory can't be criticized? Pacquiao? He's too small. Mosley? He's too old. Paul Williams? He lost too much muscle mass trying to make
weight. Andre Berto? He's too green. Miguel Cotto? Margarito ruined him when he fought him. Joshua Clottey? No, he's overrated. He's Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito's leftovers. Isaac Hlatshwayo? He's a bum. That list completes the who's who of the welterweight division.

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Floyd will face criticism for facing one of the fighters aforementioned, but will he most certainly avoid deprecation if he faced several of them. So, my recommendation is for Floyd to fight the best the division has to offer. Don't waste your time trying to make every potential match a calculated business decision. When Mayweather was a Super Featherweight, a Lightweight, and a Super Lightweight he would constantly say, "I just want to fight the best they got out there." My advice is practice what you preach, and in the end you will be appreciated. Until then, you will always be scorned as a fighter who wouldn't take chances in the latter half of your legendary career.
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Blue_Ray · Nov 2, 2009

The guy is is a closet Floyd lover and a Pac hater.

Sweet Pea Pacquiao · Nov 2, 2009

Da Chin Chekka said: ↑

Yeah i though it was pretty good and most of all fair...
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I disagree but I respect your post. Very well-written.

Props to that. But also props to your choice of women. Who is the chick in your avatar?? :happy

PanchoVilla · Nov 2, 2009

PH|LLA said: ↑

When Floyd was retired, Marquez was nowhere near anyone's list of credible Floyd comeback opponents. I'm not talking after he announced it, but before. So its not like people taking away credit AFTER Floyd wins. Before the fight was even announced, noone thought it would be a good win. At a catchweight, I thought it would still be a tough fight for Floyd because i knew he would be struggling to make the weight. At WW? different story.

You know what, I still give Floyd credit for that win. I thought it was pretty impressive considering he limited Marquez to only 1 round. But when I saw Marquez go down from that short little left hook in the 2nd round I knew right away the size difference was a big deal.

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Its a double-standard. Pac does 10x more than Floyd but they are both perceived on the same level, some people even claiming that Floyd is a better p4p fighter.
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T.C.W · Nov 2, 2009

mayweather attitude is the main reason he held to higher standards than other fighters, He is playing a role inside boxing the bad guy, I has made him rich, but there is a price for playing that role.

People will always hate mayweather and that will cloud there view of him

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

boxbox said: ↑

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I see you disputed the negative things he said about Pac, disagreed with most of the Positive things he said about PBF, and total agreed when he criticized PBF..... HMMMM...

Da Chin Chekka · Nov 2, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

I disagree but I respect your post. Very well-written.

Props to that. But also props to your choice of women. Who is the chick in your avatar?? :happy
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I wish I knew who she was...:rofl:rofl:rofl

cilldara11 · Nov 2, 2009

Blue_Ray said: ↑

The guy is is a closet Floyd lover and a Pac hater.
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You obviously haven't read it.

psychopath · Nov 2, 2009

Good one. :yep :good

PH|LLA · Nov 2, 2009

Da Chin Chekka said: ↑

Dude I remember reading well over a couple hundred post where Floyd was pounded on for taking that fight. I know you read a lot of them too.
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yea and I was one of the ones defending Floyd saying it was a good fight coming off a long layoff. But then he didn't even make the weight.

Anyways it was still a decent opponent as a comeback fight but nothing to indicate he's the best fighter in the world.

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