I totally see where you're coming from re Mike Tyson. I would definitely rate Holmes over Tyson on an all time great list but maybe Mike has the edge over Larry for the single decade of the eighties for reasons that you state.
When it comes to evaluating performance per decade, it really is about consistency, right? So some main criteria should be: -Did the fighter defined an era? -How many titles? (of course what were those titles worth) -How many title fights / title defences? -How good was the peak competition during that time? -How many fights vs decent competitors in total? -Has the fighter set new records? (in this particular time frame) + of course h2h competitiveness (also for hypothetical fights) So that’s the reason why fighters with a short peak and fewer fights got ranked lower in my list. V. 1930s 1. Joe Louis 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Max Baer 4. Max Schmeling 5. Maxie Rosenbloom 6. John Henry Lewis 7. Tony Canzoneri 8. Barney Ross 9. Jim Braddock 10. Young Corbett III VI. 1940s 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Joe Louis 3. Ezzard Charles 4. Willie Pep 5. Sandy Saddler 6. Gus Lesnevich 7. Jersey Joe Walcott 8. Manuel Ortiz 9. Jake LaMotta 10. Archie Moore VII. 1950s 1. Archie Moore 2. Sugar Ray Robinson 3. Rocky Marciano 4. Floyd Patterson 5. Sandy Sadler 6. Joey Maxim 8. Ezzard Charles 9. Gene Fullmer 10. Carmen Basilio VIII. 1960s 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Emile Griffith 3. Nino Benvenuti 4. Bob Foster 5. Dick Tiger 6. Sonny Liston 7. José Nápoles 8. Floyd Patterson 9. Carlos Ortiz 10. José Torres IX 1970s 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Carlos Monzon 3. Roberto Duran 4. Wilfred Benitez 5. Wilfredo Gomez 6. Bob Foster 7. George Foreman 8. Joe Frazier 9. Alexis Arguello 10. Ken Norton X. 1980s 1. Marvin Hagler 2. Thomas Hearns 3. Sugar Ray Leonard 4. Roberto Duran 5. Mike Tyson 6. Julio César Chávez 7. Larry Holmes 8. Azumah Nelson 9. Michael Spinks 10. Aaron Pryor XI. 1990s 1. Roy Jones Jr. 2. Oscar De La Hoya 3. Pernell Whitaker 4. Evander Holyfield 5. Felix Trinidad 6. Terry Norris 7. Julio César Chávez 8. Shane Mosley 9. Julian Jackson 10. Gerald Mclellan 11. Chris Eubank 12. Nigel Benn 13. Lennox Lewis 14. Bernard Hopkins 15. Riddick Bowe
Ooof Madone! Rummy my man. Great project to put together. Thanks for letting us in on it. I can’t wait to put my brain to some real meaningful important work while I’m at my dull as hell civilian job.
1.Bob Fitz 2.Jack McAuliffe 3.Tommy Ryan 4-Kid McCoy 5-Jim Jeffries 6-JJ Corbett 7-Peter Jackson 8-Joe Walcott 9-George Dixon 10Terry -McGovern 11-Frank Erne 12-YoungGriffo 13-Kid Lavigne 14-Joe Choynski 15-Billy Smith 16-Tom Sharkey 17-Peter Maher 18-Joe Gans. 19-Pedlar Palmer 20-Tommy West 21-Dan Creedon 22-George McFadden 23-George Byers 24-Frank Childs 25-Jack Dempsey.
If you get the chance to please add first names in here and going forward for any other decades you create lists for, it will make things significantly easier for me to log the data at the end. Cheers.
Based entirely on fights in that decade: 1890's: 1. Bob Fitzsimmons 2. Tommy Ryan 3. George Dixon 4. Charles Kid McCoy 5. Joe Gans 6. Terry McGovern 7. Frank Erne 8. Jim Jeffries 9. George Kid Lavigne 10. Barbados Joe Walcott 11. Young Griffo 12. Jimmy Barry 13. Peter Maher 14. George McFadden 15. Tom Sharkey 16. Mysterious Billy Smith 17. Pedlar Palmer 18. Jack McAuliffe 19. Oscar Gardner 20. Joe Choyinski 21. Jack Root 22. Jim Hall 23. Tommy West 24. Dal Hawkins 25. Wilmington Jack Daly 1900's: 1. Joe Gans 2. Packey McFarland 3. Stanley Ketchel 4. Jack Johnson 5. Abe Attell 6. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien 7. Jim Driscoll 8. Sam Langford 9. Terry McGovern 10. Owen Moran 11. Tommy Ryan 12. Tommy Burns 13. Barbados Joe Walcott 14. Benny Yanger 15. Charles Kid McCoy 16. Young Corbett II 17. Jack Blackburn 18. Marvin Hart 19. Jack Root 20. Billy Papke 21. Jack Twin Sullivan 22. Battling Nelson 23. Joe Jeanette 24. George Gardner 25. Mike Schreck 1910's: 1. Harry Greb 2. Sam Langford 3. Jimmy Wilde 4. Tommy Gibbons 5. Packey McFarland 6. Benny Leonard 7. Mike Gibbons 8. Jack Britton 9. Jack Dillon 10. Ted Kid Lewis 11. Freddie Welsh 12. Harry Wills 13. Johnny Kilbane 14. Philadelphia Pal Moore 15. Pete Herman 16. Kid Williams 17. Jack Dempsey 18. Kid Norfolk 19. Billy Miske 20. Lockport Jimmy Duffy 21. Johnny Dundee 22. Lew Tendler 23. Jeff Clark 24. Joe Lynch 25. Johnny Coulon 1920's: 1. Harry Greb 2. Gene Tunney 3. Benny Leonard 4. Mickey Walker 5. Tommy Laughran 6. Sammy Mandell 7. Jackie Fields 8. Jack Delaney 9. Jimmy McLarnin 10. Frankie Genaro 11. Tommy Gibbons 12. Tiger Flowers 13. Pancho Villa 14. Sid Terris 15. Kid Norfolk 16. Lew Tendler 17. Newsboy Brown 18. Joe Dundee 19. Panama Al Brown 20. Bud Taylor 21. Kid Chocolate 22. Midget Wolgast 23. Young Corbett III 24. Rocky Kansas 25. Willie Davies 1930's: 1. Henry Armstrong 2. Barney Ross 3. Joe Louis 4. Mickey Walker 5. Lou Ambers 6. Freddie Steele 7. Tony Canzoneri 8. Young Corbett III 9. John Henry Lewis 10. Panama Al Brown 11. Billy Conn 12. Benny Lynch 13. Teddy Yarosz 14. Maxie Rosenbloom 15. Midget Wolgast 16. Peter Kane 17. Jimmy McLarnin 18. Freddie Miller 19. Tommy Laughran 20. Kid Chocolate 21. Jack Kid Berg 22. Fred Apostoli 23. Baby Arizmendi 24. Fidel LaBarba 25. Sammy Angott 1940's 1. SRR 2. Ezzard Charles 3. Willie Pep 4. Joe Louis 5. Charley Burley 6. Jimmy Bivins 7. Holman Williams 8. Manuel Ortiz 9. Ike Williams 10. Archie Moore 11. Sandy Saddler 12. Henry Armstrong 13. Lloyd Marshall 14. Billy Conn 15. Jake LaMotta 16. Sammy Angott 17. Beau Jack 18. Eddie Booker 19. Kid Gavilan 20. Tony Zale 21. Tippy Larkin 22. Bert Lytell 23. Marcel Cerdan 24. Rinty Monaghan 25. Willie Joyce 1950's: 1. Archie Moore 2. Rocky Marciano 3. Pascual Perez 4. Sugar Ray Robinson 5. Kid Gavilan 6. Floyd Patterson 7. Joe Brown 8. Sandy Saddler 9. Carmen Basillo 10. Gene Fullmer 11. Harold Johnson 12. Bobo Olson 13. Davey Moore 14. Duilio Loi 15. Jimmy Carruthers 16. Yoshio Shirai 17. Tony DeMarco 18. Johnny Saxton 19. Ezzard Charles 20. Del Flanagan 21. Eder Jofre 22. Sonny Liston 23. Willie Pastrano 24. Willie Pep 25. Carlos Ortiz 1960's: 1. Muhammed Ali 2. Emile Griffiths 3. Fighting Harada 4. Vicente Saldivar 5. Ruben Olivares 6. Eder Jofre 7. Carlos Ortiz 8. Jose Napoles 9. Dick Tiger 10. Nino Benvenuti 11. Nicolino Locche 12. Sonny Liston 13. Lionel Rose 14. Luis Manuel Rodriguez 15. Horacio Accavallo 16. Pone Kingpetch 17. Sugar Ramos 18. Bob Foster 19. Chartchai Chionoi 20. Joe Frazier 21. Carlos Monzon 22. Curtis Cokes 23. Hiroyuki Ebihara 24. Ismael Laguna 25. Salavtore Burruni 1970's 1. Carlos Monzon 2. Roberto Duran 3. Muhammed Ali 4. Miguel Canto 5. Alexis Arguello 6. Jose Napoles 7. Bob Foster 8. Wilfred Benetiz 9. George Foreman 10. Carlos Zarate 11. Masao Oba 12. Antonio Cervantes 13. Larry Holmes 14. Wilfredo Gomez 15. Sugar Ray Leonard 16. Eder Jofre 17. Matthew Saad Muhammed 18. Carlos Palomino 19. Ayub Kalule 20. Joe Frazier 21. Danny Lopez 22. Ruben Olivares 23. Betulio Gonzalez 24. Victor Galindez 25. Esteban De Jesus 1980's 1. Sugar Ray Leonard 2. Michael Spinks 3. Marvin Hagler 4. Julio Cesar Chavez 5. Thomas Hearns 6. Salvador Sanchez 7. Mike Tyson 8. Roberto Duran 9. Mike McCallum 10. Alexis Arguello 11. Larry Holmes 12. Evander Holyfield 13. Wilfredo Gomez 14. Azumah Nelson 15. Jung Koo Chang 16. Jeff Chandler 17. Eusebio Pedroza 18. Hector Camacho 19. Donald Curry 20. Aaron Pryor 21. Jeff Fenech 22. Gilberto Roman 23. Michael Nunn 24. Sumbu Kalambay 25. Lloyd Honeyghan 1990's: 1. Pernell Whitaker 2. Roy Jones Jnr 3. Oscar De La Hoya 4. Lennox Lewis 5. James Toney 6. Evander Holyfield 7. Felix Trinidad 8. Julio Cesar Chavez 9. Ricardo Lopez 10. Prince Naseem Hamed 11. Dariusz Michalczewski 12. Bernard Hopkins 13. Riddick Bowe 14. Michael Moorer 15. Terry Norris 16. Sung Kil-Moon 17. Yuri Arbachakov 18. Michael Carbajal 19. Eric Morales 20. Wilfredo Vasquez 21. Chris Eubank 22. Nigel Benn 23. Humberto Gonzalez 24. Shane Mosley 25. Junior Jones 2000's: 1. Floyd Mayweather Jnr 2. Manny Pacquiao 3. Bernard Hopkins 4. Juan Manuel Marquez 5. Joe Calzaghe 6. Marco Antonio Barrera 7. Miguel Cotto 8. Eric Morales 9. Shane Mosley 10. Wladimir Klitchsko 11. Ronald Wright 12. Ricky Hatton 13. RJJ 14. Lennox Lewis 15. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam 16. David Haye 17. Tomasz Adamek 18. Kelly Pavlik 19. Jermain Taylor 20. Ivan Calderon 21. Chad Dawson 22. Jose Luis Castillo 23. Vernon Forrest 24. Vic Darchinyan 25. Masamori Tokuyama 2010's: 1. Floyd Mayweather 2. Manny Pacquaio 3. Andre Ward 4. Vasyl Lomachenko 5. Roman Gonzalez 6. Saul Alvarez 7. Gennedy Golovkin 8. Oleksandr Usyk 9. Terence Crawford 10. Naoya Inoue 11. Wladimir Klitschko 12. Mikey Garcia 13. Sergey Kovalev 14. Sergio Martinez 15. Juan Estrada 16. Nonito Donaire 17. Yukoris Gamboa 18. Arthur Beterviev 19. Guillermo Rigondeaux 20. Tyson Fury 21. Anthony Joshua 22. Adonis Stevenson 23. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai 24. Shinsuke Yamanaka 25. Juan Manuel Marquez
1. Austinboxing #6 2. Dynamicpuncher #7 3. Mastrangelo #17 4. Rubber Glove Sandwich #19 5. McGrain #20 6. turpinr #24 7. CharlieFirpo85 #34 8. mattdonnellon #36 9. Greg Price99 #39
1-Joe Gans 2-Sam Langford 3-Jack Johnson 4-Jim Jeffries 5-Joe Jeannette 6-Sam McVea 7-Stanley Ketchel 8-Tommy Burns 9-Marvin Hart 10-Jack O’Brien 11-Bob Fitzsimmons 12-Battling Nelson 13-Young Corbett 11 14-Terry McGovern 15-George Gardiner 16-Jack Root 17-Frank Klaus 18-Joe Walcott 19-Owen Moran 20-Dave Holly 21-Mike Schreck 22-Jack Twin Sullivan 23-Willie Lewis 24-Ed Martin 25-Gus Ruhlin
1910-19 1-Benny Leonard 2-Harry Greb 3-Jimmy Wilde 4-Sam Langford 5-Harry Wills 6-Jack Dempsey 7-Sam McVea 8-Joe Jeannette 9-Kid Norfolk 10-Jack Johnson 11-Tommy Gibbons 12-Packey McFarland 13-Jeff Clarke 14-Jess Willard 15-Luther McCarty 16-Gunboat Smith 17-Jack-Dillon 18-Georges Carpentier 19-Battling Levinsky 20-Freddie Welsh 21-Jack Britton 22-Ted Lewis 23-Johnny Kilbane 24-Pete Herman 25-Billy Miske Honourable mention: Frank Klaus Johnny Dundee Fred Fulton Publish and be damned and may the Lord have mercy on my soul!
This content is protected This content is protected 2. James J. Jeffries 3. Stanley Ketchel 4. Sam Langford 5. Bob Fitzsimmons 6. Jack Johnson 7. Tommy Ryan 8. Terry McGovern 9. Tommy Burns 10. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien This content is protected This content is protected 2. Jack Johnson 3. Sam Langford 4. Jimmy Wilde 5. Benny Leonard 6. Mike Gibbons 7. Harry Wills 8. Ted Kid Lewis 9. Freddie Welsh 10. Jack Dempsey This content is protected This content is protected 2. Harry Greb 3. Gene Tunney 4. Benny Leonard 5. Mickey Walker 6. Tommy Laughran 7. Tommy Gibbons 8. Pancho Villa 9. Tiger Flowers 10. Jimmy McLarnin This content is protected This content is protected 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Barney Ross 4. Mickey Walker 5. Tony Canzoneri 6. Freddie Steele 7. John Henry Lewis 8. Billy Conn 9. Max Schmeling 10. Panama Al Brown This content is protected This content is protected 2. Joe Louis 3. Ezzard Charles 4. Willie Pep 5. Ike Williams 6. Manuel Ortiz 7. Gus Lesnevich 8. Charlie Burley 9. Jake LaMotta 10. Sammy Angott This content is protected This content is protected 2. Sugar Ray Robinson 3. Rocky Marciano 4. Floyd Patterson 5. Sandy Sadler 6. Kid Gavilán 7. Sonny Liston 8. Gene Fullmer 9. Jersey Joe Walcott 10. Carmen Basilio This content is protected This content is protected 2. Eder Jofre 3. Sonny Liston 4. Bob Foster 5. Dick Tiger 5. José Nápoles 6. Nino Benvenuti 7. Emile Griffith 8. Vicente Saldivar 9. Carlos Ortiz 10. José Torres This content is protected This content is protected 2. Carlos Monzon 3. Wilfred Benitez 4. Muhammad Ali 5. Bob Foster 6. Joe Frazier 7. George Foreman 8. Wilfredo Gomez 9. Alexis Arguello 10. Larry Holmes This content is protected This content is protected 2. Marvin Hagler 3. Thomas Hearns 4. Larry Holmes 5. Roberto Duran 6. Aaron Pryor 7. Julio César Chávez 8. Sugar Ray Leonard 9. Michael Spinks 10. Azumah Nelson 11. Julian Jackson 12. Evander Holyfield 13. Dwight Muhammad Qawi 14. Mike McCallum 15. Meldrick Taylor This content is protected This content is protected 2. Pernell Whitaker 3. Julio Cesar Chavez 4. Oscar De La Hoya 5. James Toney 6. Terry Norris 7. Felix Trinidad 8. Naseem Hamed 9. Lennox Lewis 10. Riddick Bowe 11. Evander Holyfield 12. Gerald Mclellan 13. Bernard Hopkins 14. Chris Eubank 15. Nigel Benn This content is protected This content is protected 2. Manny Pacquiao 3. Bernard Hopkins 4. Wladimir Klitschko 5. Joe Calzaghe 6. Vitali Klitschko 7. Shane Mosley 8. Juan Manuel Márquez 9. Oscar De La Hoya 10. Arthuro Gatti This content is protected This content is protected 2. Manny Pacquiao 3. Canelo Alvarez 4. Andre Ward 5. Gennady Golovkin 6. Vasyl Lomachenko 7. Tyson Fury 8. Oleksandr Usyk 9. Sergey Kovalev 10. Carl Froch
I really like your list. You made me think to re-order the 1940s. If I stick to my criteria, Louis has to be ranked ahead of Charles. Consistency beats brilliance.
Louis and Charles are 2 of my favourite all time fighters. I rate Louis #1 all time @ HW. Consistency of dominance is more key on my ranking criteria than most too, and I factor in prime losses to a higher degree than most as well. According to my notes, Louis went 18-0 during the 40's, Charles 65-5-1. It's difficult to give Louis too much credit for the extra consistency, given that Charles had so many more fights. 17 of Louis's fights being WT title fights does factor in his favour though. So, imo, it's slight advantage Louis, before we compare the quality of their respective best wins during the decade: Louis has - JJW x 2, Buddy Baer x 2, Arturo Godoy x 2, Lou Nova, Abe Simon x 2 & much smaller Billy Conn x 2 Charles has - Archie Moore x 3, Jimmy Bivins x 3 (who was past prime for the last couple), 14lbs heavier JJW, 16-18lbs heavier Joey Maxim x 3, Gus Lesnevich, 17lbs heavier Elmer Ray, Oakland Billy Smith x 2, Lloyd Marshall x 2, smaller Charley Burley x 2, Teddy Yarosz, Anton Christoforidis & 33lbs heavier Joe Baski For me, the clear advantage in Charles favour more than bridges Louis's aforementioned advantage. Based purely on fights in the 40's, Charles is #2 for me, with Louis #4. Pep is sandwiched between the two. On another note, the 40's could well be the strongest decade ever. I'm a big fan of Lloyd Marshall and am disgusted at myself for ranking him as low as #13 during the decade, given he did almost all of his best work there, but there's no way I can get him higher, such is the quality of the work done by other fighters in the 40's.