A few questions about Benn/Mclellan fight...

Agreed, cussing him for not fighting Nunn atsch

 

Trinidad was not a 'blown up Welter' either, that really ****ing pisses me off.

 

Rumour has it - that when Toney entered the same building - Hopkins use to leg it.

I'm not arguing with you - I realise what you saying - that Hopkins came to maturity when the other guys left the divison and were not there to fight.

But he did lose to Roy Jones Jnr though - lets not conviently forget that. :nono

I just reckon - he dominated a division that the real stars left.

I disagree he would have beaten Hopkins and McCllellan. :nono

 

Roy Jones Jnr
James Toney
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
Mike Mccallum
Gerald McCllellan

These fighters above - all Middleweights in the 1990's - would be favored to beat Hopkins at Middleweight.

Hopkins great legacy at middleweight is based on two big wins against blown up Light Welter / Welterweights in Trinidad and De La Hoya. atsch:-(

 

Toney would be at a massive stylistic disadvantage against Hopkins.

Benn would not beat Hopkins

And seriously FLINT, if you say Trinidad was a 'blown up Welter' one more time I might have to be a little less friendly with ya', you are talking ****ing **** mate.

 

Toney is horrendously overrated by a lot of people on ESB. I love watching him fight, but he didn’t lose to Jones because Roy was a phenom. He lost to Roy because Roy had fast hands, a disciplined mind and great footwork. Calzaghe and Hopkins would have humiliated Toney in the same way, IMO.

Flea’s right – Trinidad was a light-middle who boiled down to 147 and who hydrated healthily to 160. I think he was around 170-180 between fights and is likely over 200 now.

He’s the same height as Hopkins too, IIRC. Not a blown-up MW. He’d have beaten everyone else in the division bar Hopkins and Wright (who might have still been at 154 – Flea can correct me if I’m wrong).

 

Trinidad turned pro at 140 and Hopkins at 175. Hopkins was the bigger man. Saying Trinidad was not a blown up welter is fine, but he fought at welter for a decade, Hopkins could never make welter, because he was bigger naturally. He had a significant size advantage. He is comfortable at 175.

 

Well he destroyed both touted Olympians at 154 at the time in Reid and Vargas. They were both very, very talented (Reid moreso IMO) and Tito was going up from 147 where the consensus was he'd been 'found out' by De La Hoya. They were athletic, could box and punch, and were both undefeated.

Of course,it's easy to say 'he just beat Joppy' but it was part of a unification tournament. Tito fought his way to Hopkins with one of the most barbaric slayings of that year, and was an established force at the weight after that.

De La Hoya was indeed 'blown up', but I don't count it amongst Hopkins' best wins like FLINT does (probably because it's the only two fights of Hopkins' he has seen at the weight/only two names he recognises)

Trinidad was a monster. De La Hoya may have laid down the blueprint, but Hopkins executed it perfectly, was strong throughout the fight, and forced a stoppage despite not being a big puncher. Something no one has done to Tito since.

 

Read Benns book a while ago and in it he says he fell out with Michael Watson over Watson asking him was he still on the coke? He admitted in that programme the other night to smoking a joint and taking ecstacy, but he never mentioned coke. I Dont think he was on steroids though, think that Geralds trainer on that programme was an idiot, didnt really believe much of what he said about anything.

 

Trinidad was very shaky at the lower weights.

Down numerous times.

Hopkins picked on the smaller guy.

Trindad moped up - both Vargas and Reid - but they were both far too green to face someone like Trindad and he destroyed their career.

But both still managed to bowl him over in both fights.

Trinidad - slaying of Joppy was very impressive and that probaly hyped him up too much at the weight- but it was obvious (in hindsight) Trinidad was going to fold against a solid Middleweight.

 

And he was dead at the weight.

Stripped off a stone the week of the fight.

 

Hopkins didn't 'pick on the smaller guy' Tito was the finalist in a mini-tournament to find an undisputed middleweight champion.

Tito always got up and destroyed the other guy. Sure he was a bit shaky, because he was cutting weight. I don't think this is particularly a problem, he was always calm and very, very quick to recover.

Reid had wins over a faded Simon Brown and the good French fighter Boudouani. He was touted as one of the hardest punchers in boxing at the time. Watching the fight, it's clear to see he was a very talented and rounded fighter. Vargas had also been in with some very good opponents.

Tito was the favourite going into his fight with Hopkins, and bar Oscar (who was even more highly regarded) had proved to be an absolute wrecking ball.

 

Tell me when a fully hydrated Toney ever showed the attributes to deal with the skills Roy possessed?

 

Yep it was part of a tournament including Keith Holmes as well, Tito had some fantastic wins and was the favorite remember reading Boxing News that week and then reading the week after. Hopkins shocked the world that night.

 

So what? I'm not doubting he was talented, but that wasn't why he beat Toney.

You'll notice in Toney's career he fought very few fleet-footed fighters. The ones he did make him look **** (Jones Jr, Nunn, Griffin). He looked amazing against plodding, come-forward guys.

Jones was fleet-footed and fast-handed = nightmare for Toney. Hopkins wasn't as physically gifted, but he had enough of those attributes (and was a lot more technically skilled than Jones) to have beaten Toney.

And, seriously... Trinidad is 5'11 and looked solid at 160. No flab or anything. Hopkins didn't beat him because he was bigger as he did with Oscar, he beat him by being more skilled.