A fighters 'Lineal' claim.. Check this out!

He's the lineal champion dun

 

1) Wlad beat Povetkin to become lineal champ as that was a consensus 1v2 fight.

2) Erdei officially retired, Pascal and Hopkins in the rematch was a 1v2 fight hence starting a new lineage.

3) Toney renounced his championship claim by moving to SMW. Hopkins vs Tito was 1v2 hence starting a new lineage.

I can't stand Naysayer, but when it comes to this argument his 3 points are not at all contradictory.

Note, Fury officially retired his championship claim when he retired due to mental health issues thus his crown is currently vacant.

 

I thought that Wlad beating Chagaev made him lineal champion. Memory is getting bad. I used to know this stuff lol..

 

So exactly whose ratings are you using to determine who are and aren't "the number one and two rated fighters" then? After all, practically every vacant title fight is between the #1 and #2 ranked fighters according to that sanctioning body and half of the ratings are an absolute joke. Who decides whether one organisation's ranking are better than another's?

There was no need to establish lineage in those days as you only had the WBA (or its predecessor the NBA) as a sanctioning body, not half a dozen all claiming different world champions. Therefore, there was only one clearly recognised world champion. Like Golovkin at middleweight.

Firstly, as I stated in my previous post, the ideal of a lineal champion is simply an abstract concept in the minds of a small number of idiots with an agenda to push, who want to try and make an argument with nothing to support it. This daydream has no official status. The belts that do have recognised status are the four official sanctioning bodies, the oldest three of which rate Gennady Gennadyvich Golovkin as world middleweight champion.

Secondly, on a practical level if you want to try and claim that someone who has never had a middleweight fight, or even beaten one world ranked middlewweight has a better claim to supremacy in that division than someone who has knocked out about 8 world ranked middleweights then I'll have a pint of whatever you're drinking!

Thirdly, as stated in my previous post, even if you do give the idea any credibility, the last fight Martinez had at middleweight was his win over Murray, therefore, any lineage that did exist died when he retired.

Fourthly, again, as quoted in my previous post, even if we humour all of your little fantasies above, if Erdei "vacated" his lineal status by vacating his belt and moving up in weight, then Alvarez would also have vacated when he meekly handed his belt over to Golovkin and returned to 154 to fight Liam Smith. You cannot have it both ways.

WBA Champion - Gennady Golovkin
WBC Champion - Gennady Golovkin
IBF Champion - Gennady Golovkin

Those are the fact, not delusional hater fantasies.

And the three most prestigious sanctioning bodies.

 

I was in error. Erdei moved out the the division and vacated. I was unaware that this had happened at that time. Erdei isn't exactly a regular on HBO or Showtime.

 

He was recognized by the ring as the champ when he beat Chagaev, some of his supporters claim he was the man when he beat Byrd for the 2nd time, some of his dictators(Nay_Sayer might be the only one though) claim he didn't become the champ until he beat Povetkin in 2013.

 

A lineal title is one of the ways to show who is the real champion of a division is. Golovkin at Middleweight isn't that. He got handed over the WBC through boxing politics without having to win the title in the ring. That's no way for a guy to get "clearly recognized" as the "one and only" champion of a division. Don't you see that is why Lineal Titles are so importnat, so you can't just get handed titles. You have to litereally beat the champ to become "the one and only" recognized world champion of a division. The MW division has Canelo, Golovkin, Jacobs and Saunders. I'm not trying to take anything away from Golovkin, but the way he acquired the WBC is not how a fighter in Jack Johnson's time would become the Man of a division LOL. He would have to fight and beat the Man to become that. I don't know how you can't seem to see the importance of a Lineal Title especially in a division where you have multiple guys as World Title Holders.

This statement tells me that you really do not know much about lineal titles, and their place in boxing history. You're basically passing lineal titles off as something fans just made up randomly in recent years or something, which is completely ridiculous to me. Lineal Titles is not just an abstract concept. It's a very real championship with a very official status.

He's had two Middleweight fights, they were contested at a catchweight of 155 pounds. He's never fought a true Middleweight, but he has fought at Middleweight before, which is how he became Lineal Champion lol. This is the type of argument I was describing earlier, that you just don't think that someone who has never fought at 160 should Lineal Champ. I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling that way, but please understand that that's not an actual rule for what determines a Lineal Champ. No where does it say that a Lineal Champ can't defend a title at a catchweight lol. The only requirement is that the two combatants weigh-in at or below the Middleweight limit of 160. A catchweight is an agreement between two boxers, and it doesn't affect the status of a Lineal Title Fight.

The lineage did not die with Martinez vs Murray just because Cotto and Martinez agreed on a catchweight of 159. Martinez calling Cotto a diva didn't stop it from being a Lineal Title fight either lol. Martinez having no knees didn't stop it from being a Lineal Title fight either. They weighed in below 160, therefore it was a Lineal Title Fight. You are clearly in denial of this, but don't just take my word for it.

You're calling the Lineal Title, something that has existed and has been recognized (officially) in boxing for generations, a "delusional hater fantasy' lol. As if this is all just some grand conspiracy to take credit away from Golovkin lol. It's kind of amazing when you consider that Jacobs is also the WBA MW Champion, and Golovkin never won the WBC Title in the Ring, he was handed it lol. And you're acting like he's somehow proven himself to be only champion of the division. And you got Saunders. I mean you're obviously a huge Golovkin fan, but you're so incredibly biased it's stunning. Please understand that Canelo being the Lineal Champion isn't something that was invented to take anything away from Golovkin. That is so because quite simply Canelo fought the Man who Beat the Man and won. Simple as that. Martinez was the Man. His lineage didn't die because he agreed to fight Cotto at 159. I wish it was at 160 too, I'm not a fan of catchweights myself, but it don't change the fact that it happened and it was for the Lineal Title.

 

Who cares about the lineal title when it's devalued and inactive....Gus Lesnevich sat on his claim while Chares, Moore, Bivins, and Maxim carved out legacies as all time greats.

 

Golovkin can carve out a respectable legacy without being the Lineal Champ, but he shouldn't be recognized as a unified champ without fighting the Lineal Champ. Lineal Championships serve a purpose, even if inactive for a fight or two, to provide the necessary incentive for the Best to fight the Best. Plenty of ATGs have never been Lineal Champions, that's not necessarily a knock on them, some fighters may not have had the opportunity to become Lineal Champ. But when you have a guy in Golovkin that desires to unify a division, that desire should include fighting the Lineal Champ, so we can find out who really is the Man of a division.

 

^This.

The alphabet organizations play silly shenanigans with their belts ALL the time. Wasn't Bumlovkin handed his WBC and WBA Super titles on a silver platter? And exactly when is the WBA gonna decide on WHO is the champion of their organization for a given weight class? The ONLY title that matters is the LINEAL title if only because it isn't subject to change hands based on who pays the higher bid [aka sanctioning fee]...

 

The TBRB [and a few other organizations] didn't recognize Wlad as Lineal until his win over Povetkin. I'll take the word of the TBRB over the citizens of Planet Klitschko ANY day...

 

TBRB also rates GGG as the #6 p4p fighter in the world, and McGrain, TBRB's representative here thinks Wlad is a lock-top15 ATG heavyweight. And I'm to believe you only respect and recognize thier rankings? GTFO.

 

GG has not fought the man who beat the man and NO he is not the lineal MW champion no matter what you claim.

 

So, exactly WHO made the top four alphabet organizations "official"? Was there a ceremony where the heads of the top four alphabet organizations got crowned as "official". Was there a vote put forth? Did someone die and their "official" status was handed down in four parts to the WBA/C/O and IBF?

Please explain...

 

I will take this a step further and say that the Middleweight division is arguably the most storied division in boxing history. THE best fighters who have ever laced up gloves have fought there and that's no exaggeration. It is unfair to ATGs like Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Leonard and others who have held the LEGITIMATE MW title to put Bumlovkin amongst their ranks when he has NOT earned that distinction in the ring - like the afore mentioned ATGs have. The Triple Duck is a PROTECTED fighter and a sham until he beats somebody with a PULSE...