A FUN THREAD......Overated/Underated heavyweight contenders of EACH decade...who/why?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Oct 24, 2008.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    So say you pick the 1950s and 1990s .....pick a few contenders from the 1950s and 1990s u thought were underated, state your reasons why......then switch and pick a few 1950s and 90s contenders you think are overated.....and why?


    you can pick ANY decade in heavyweight history, you can also pick more than one decade to do and as many fighters per decade as u want.....enjoy this!




    Example:


    1980s:


    Underated:


    Tony Tubbs- Very talented boxer with goodhandspeed, who never got exposed by anyone other than tyson. At his best, I think he was one of the better 1980s alpha champions...but unfortuntley because of his excess weight, people tend to vastly underate him.

    Pinklon Thomas- People always talk about spoon, what about thomas? thomas whupped spoon cleanly in there fight.....and was undefeated WBC champion and # 1 RATED heavyweight 2 years running(some had him rated over holmes!)....part of what hurts thomas legacy is a his lack of a legacy defining unification fight with holmes, but thats not thomas fault since holmes legite ducked thomas....plus his drug problem, but the thomas at his best is a top 5 heavyweight of the decade with one of the best jabs i have ever seen.....I think he takes holmes in 1984.




    Overated:

    Frank Bruno- Never beat anyone of note in the 1980s lost all of his big fights in the 1980s....He had major stamina flaws in the 1980s.

    Evander Holyfield- I dont think his wins over far past there prime versions of dokes, thomas, and tillis and struggle with alex stewart shows me he was capable of taking mike tyson in 1988-1990.


    thats just an example
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 24, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Oct 24, 2008
    #1
  2. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tubb's is very underrated in some circles. His loss against Butler is a certified dive, and he was handily beating Brian Nielson until he retired on his stool out of nowhere citing a "rib injury".

    And Nielson is another fighter who was actually investigated for being involved in fixed fights.
     
    Russell, Oct 24, 2008
    Russell, Oct 24, 2008
    #2
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Aww Russell I want to hear your own list and opinions of a decade(or two or three)......come on man! lets hear em!
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 24, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Oct 24, 2008
    #3
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'll think on it and post them when I do. :)
     
    Russell, Oct 24, 2008
    Russell, Oct 24, 2008
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  5. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1920's---Underrated-Jack Renault-----overrated-Bill Brennan (Brennan gets pumped up a great deal due to his good performance in the second Dempsey fight but his resume is unimpressive. Renault was blackballed by Jack Kearns after giving Dempsey a tough time in a sparring session. Renault did not get a shot despite stopping George Godfrey, Fred Fulton, and Floyd Johnson back to back. Dempsey himself went from Dec, 1920 to Sept 1926 defending against only one real heavyweight, Firpo, who knocked him out of the ring, and two lightheavies, Carpentier and Gibbons.)

    1940's---underrated-Lee Savold-----overrated-Buddy Baer (Savold has 17 victories against ever Ring rated fighters and made the ratings 7 times, rising to #2 contender. He was actually recognized as champion by the BBBC. Baer had only three victories over ever Ring rated fighters, Abe Simon, Nathan Mann, and Tony Galento. In fairness, he gave Louis a good fight in his first effort and did get an 8 round newspaper decision over Savold. Baer, though, despite an impressive percentage record against a great deal of second rate competition was rated only twice, at #6 in 1940 & #7 in 1941. Buddy is considered formidable mainly because of his size, not his accomplishments.)
     
    OLD FOGEY, Oct 24, 2008
    OLD FOGEY, Oct 24, 2008
    #5
  6. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    60's underrated
    Ernie Terrell. Not a style to look good against & hardly an eay guy to get out of there & more like a guy to avoid.

    overrated

    Zora Folley. He was slipping and on the other side of the mountain by the mid 60's.

    70's underrated

    Jimmy Young. When he was on that run from say 75-77, nobody was in for an easy night's work. And not exactly feather fisted since he could get an opponents respect with that nice sneaky right hand he threw. And just how many other guys ever feinted Ali the way this guy did?

    Knoetze. Big big hitter and brawler of the first order. He certainly wasn't the type to go undefeated for very long ,but if a guy lost to him it was going to be by brutal ko & the heavyweights don't come back from brutal ko's too well. Very dangerous guy.

    Overrated

    Norton. A very good solid fighter, but there were some matchups that weren't made & that's probably to his benefit. I don't think fares too well ever in a Foreman rematch/Lyle/Frazier/Shavers had wanted the guy for years/ both Knoetze and Coetzee/Mercado/and the up and comers like Tate and Dokes and Page would've been a lot tougher than the Ledoux and Cobb matchups.
     
    zadfrak, Oct 24, 2008
    zadfrak, Oct 24, 2008
    #6
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Great stuff so far i hope this catches on
     
    SuzieQ49, Oct 25, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Oct 25, 2008
    #7
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    40s Underated

    Elmer Ray - went 57-1 from 1943-1947, including a win and a close MD loss to Walcott, and a win over Ezzard Charles. 1 of the greatest fighters to never get his shot

    Bivins - went 27-0 before losing to Walcott, beating Walcott, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall, Lee Q Murray, Lee Savold, Maxim. 1 of the greatest LHWs and another great black HW who didn't get his shot

    Overrated

    Jersey Joe Walcott - got Ray, Bivins and Charles on the decline, highlight of his career was was a lucky punch win during a series of 4 fights he got outboxed in by Charles (including the gift in the 4th). Some horrible KO losses, inconsistencies, bad losses and lack of a long consistent winning run hurts him
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 25, 2008
    PowerPuncher, Oct 25, 2008
    #8
  9. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    2000s:
    underrated:
    Chris Byrd and John Ruiz. Mostly due to their fan un-friendly styles but their body of work is quite impressive. I also think they would be able to hold their own in nearly any era - especially Ruiz.

    overrated:
    V. Klitschko. His body of work lacks about everything and his claim to fame is a loss. Great comeback though and would give many fighters in the history of the sport fits due to his style and awkwardness.
     
    Loewe, Oct 25, 2008
    Loewe, Oct 25, 2008
    #9
  10. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Agreed that Byrd and Ruiz have better resumes but Vitali beats them both.

    Vitali is overrated because hes never been in with many other top contenders and hence his dominance is expected. I don't think Peter is better than the Mercer 43yo Holmes schooled, I'd say worse
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 25, 2008
    PowerPuncher, Oct 25, 2008
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You are selling poor Jersey Joe short a bit here.

    If you look at the rankings he basicaly cleaned out the division to get his shot at Louis.

    I would dispute that he got Ray Bivins and Charles on the decline.

    Lucky punch?

    Walcott made his own luck in that fight and he was ahead when he knocked Charles out anyway.
     
    janitor, Oct 25, 2008
    janitor, Oct 25, 2008
    #11
  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    80s. I'll lay off Tucker for a while and say the lummox Tyrell Biggs, a poor man's Mark Breland (yeah, that bad). Totally hyped by the Yanks into being something he never was. Boring style, that never improved since his amateur days. As soon as he stepped up was easily beaten by just about everybody.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 25, 2008
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 25, 2008
    #12
  13. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    "A lucky punch". Clearly one of the most perfectly executed KO's in boxing history.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 25, 2008
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 25, 2008
    #13
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    If you dont mind me chiming in....


    1. would u consider bivins to be on the decline despite being 26 years old, # 1 rated, and on a 27-0 run leading up to the walcott fight?

    2. would u consider ray to be on the decline despite being # 1 rated, and on a 57-1 run leading up to the walcott fight?

    3. Would u consider charles to be on the decline despite being 29 year old heavyweight champion on a 24-0 4 year unbeaten streak?


    too me at least, it seems quite the opposite. that these guys were at there absolute peaks on the best winning streaks of there careers when walcott beat them.

    Please what is your definition of a lucky punch vs a beautifully timed artistic punch?? Charles got no gift in the 4th fight, he stopped fighting after the 11th and let walcott close strong winning him the fight.

    I would also question your stance of walcotts "one highlight" of his career(despite that being a famous and all time classic one that deserves a ton of credit defiying adversity)...I would like to say another one of his highlights was going 10-1 against ring magazine opposition from 1945-1947 including a 2 knockdown boxing lesson he gave to long time unbeaten heavyweight champion joe louis that should have won him the crown.


    what horrible knockouts did he suffer near his prime?

    what bad losses did he suffer near his prime?

    you claim his lack of long consistent winning, but from 1945-1947 walcott went 10-1 against Ring Magazine rated fighters.


    just like u said Bivins was 26 years old on the best winning streak of his career before walcott knocked him down, and "walcott outboxed him the whole way"(new york times)...so it seems ur agreeing with me that the one to stop bivins on his absolute tear through the division WAS WALCOTT.


    just like u said ray went 57-1 in a 5 year span...but who the guy who ended this streak to slow down the red hott ray? jersey joe walcott



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    SuzieQ49, Oct 25, 2008
    SuzieQ49, Oct 25, 2008
    #14
  15. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You imply Bivins defeated Walcott at least once. I don't think he did.
     
    OLD FOGEY, Oct 25, 2008
    OLD FOGEY, Oct 25, 2008
    #15
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