A good chin

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Cachibatches, Jun 2, 2008.


  1. Cachibatches

    Cachibatches Boxing Junkie banned

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    I know this has been done before, but lets do it again.

    Most would say that a bad chin, more than anything else, is not correctable. You got a chin or you don't. Its totally physical- the length of the neck, etc.

    I am one of the few that says that that is not true.

    Ali, when he knew he could no longer slip the punches, developed his chin by putting on weight, and sparring without headgear in the gym. He developed his ability to take a punch by taking them on a regular basis, and went from being a guy who could be knocked down by a 190 pound guy like Henry Cooper to a guy who could take shots off of fighters like Foreman and Shavers.

    Also, I remember that when Hearns knew that his chin was a problem, he prepared for the second Leonard fight by training the legs- doing leg presses in the gym. Leonard hit the deck twice- Hearns stayed up.

    The legs theory- making the legs stronger to work as shock absorbers, seems to be applicable with former kick boxers who have powerful legs- think of Troy Dorsey, James Warring, and Vitaly Kiltscho.

    Dempsey and other old time fighters used to chew tree sap to strengthen the jaw muscles. There are nerves in the jaw that lead to knock out when crunched by a good punch, and they can be protected by strengthening the jaw muscle.

    Tyson did his neck push ups. Makes sense- if the thickness of the neck relative to the rest of the body counts, thicken the neck.

    Sometimes, it has a lot to do with stamina, or just plain attitude. Think of Foreman in his senond career as oppossed to his first. That is why you will occsionally see a fighter go up a weight class and get a bettter chin- he is not as drained and has a better beard. I know David Haye's fans are counting on this.

    Finally, good technique plays a part. Tucking the chin as opposed to leaving it out there to get popped.

    I say that it is the hardest thing to correct, but not impossible.

    What say all of you?
     
  2. MexicanJew

    MexicanJew Jajajajajaja Full Member

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    You either born with a good chin or you are not. I agree that you can work to strengthen your ability to take a punch, but if you have a weak chin, you have a weak chin.

    Wayne McCullough wrote an article on ESPN Boxing a few months ago, and he made some interesting points.

    He said that fighters with strong chins, how many people will point out they have thick necks or are stoutly built. But he himself has a granite chin and a thin neck.

    His belief that a fighters chin, more than anything else, is the fighters will. To be able to fight through the haze and keep standing and fight back.

    This brings me to my point, in that I believe a fighters chin is combination of his own will, but also his inherent neurological ability to absorb the impact of a punch.

    When a fighter gets tagged, the brain is basically temporarily scrambled, with balance and general conscious thought thrown off, it would be like wacking a computer processor. The brain ability to bounce back from this state is what really decides a fighters chin. Part of that is willpower, but the other part is just biological advantage. Some people for whatever intangible reason have a more resilient brain. Just as some computer processors are wired and constructed better to return to a functional state in a minimal amount of time.

    that said, even the most iron chinned fighters can be put down by a perfect punch, such as Henry Coopers "Enrys' Hammer" left hook which was known as his money punch.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    IMO, this has more to do with balance than anything else. Ali was perfectly balanced for offence in his first incarnation, but not for defence - it is a fact, if you are up on your toes and changing direction at the moment of impact then you are more likely to be hurt. Ali, through most of his "second career" radically altered his technical footwork. He rarely used his ankles for balance, and there were very few sharp changes of direction, plus you rarely saw him turn his torso at an extreme angle (asking for it if you are timed). The other things you mention are valid, but alterations to footwork with a view to improving balance was the main factor in my view.

    Also, Cooper hit like a truck ;)

    You make a lot of very good point, and I agree with you that "chin" can be improved to a degree. It's interesting, the first round of the Pac-Marqez fight. Pac does hit JMM straight down the pipe AFTER the first round of that fight, but he doesn't drop him like he does with every serious shot he lands in the first. This is because Juan was caught cold, he was not prepared for the punches coming his way, the power surprised him and his body reacted accordingly. So mental adjustment is obviously a factor.
     
  4. T.C.W

    T.C.W Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good chin's are born not made.
     
  5. FlatNose

    FlatNose Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, it isn't just the physical durability , it is also the ability to see the punches the punches coming too. It's the ones you don't see that get you. Periphiral vision is very important to see punches coming and being able to brace for the impact and roll with them a bit.
     
  6. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For me the thickness of a guy's neck - plausible in theory - does not make too much difference in practice. Michael Moorer developed a neck that rivalled Tyson's (it may actually have been larger) but he was one of the softer-chinned heavyweights.
    Similarly, George Foreman had a 17" neck, by far smaller than Moorer's, yet also took a punch far better.

    I'm from the old school who believes that a chin and a punch cannot be improved, at least to any marked degree. A chinny fighter is likely to remain one throughout his career. Similarly, a featherfist is also unlikely to develop any significant power increase.

    I do think though that adding overall muscular size does help with overall punch resistance to a degree. Why I cannot say for certain, but just observing boxing over the years has led me to believe it does count for something.
    For instance, would the 185 lb. Holyfield be able to take the shots he did from Bowe, Tyson, Lewis etc? Highly doubtful.
     
  7. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Of course, adding pure mucular size reaches a point of diminishing returns as well. If Holy had bulked to 240, I doubt he would have taken any better a shot than he did at 215.