A graph showing Wilders Supremacy

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bjl12, Jun 8, 2024.



  1. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Active Member Full Member

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    Marvin Hart and Carnera aren't in yet(which is egregious). I'd be shocked if every lineal champ with the possible exception of Briggs isn't elected. Hell get in it'll take some time. Moorer just got in and hes earlier and better than Rahman. I think its too soon to consider Rahman a HOF reject and to treat him as a case of someone who is below the standards of the Hall.

    Even if you think Rahmans better Wilder has the fancy records that sports HOFs generally put above everything else. And you can think those fancy records are fradualent and to an extent they are(not entirely) but he has them and they are what they are.

    There used to be a 2nd HOF that just went bankrupt. This HOF kinda usurped that status. Its an interesting story.
     
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  2. northpaw

    northpaw Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I won't say fraudulent, I'd say the criteria is as fluid as the Pacific Ocean though. Completely agree, I'll go glance at the list and wonder why this guy is in but that guy isn't. It's like some guys that are in vs. some who aren't...........well if I had to rationalize the rhyme or reason concerning why someone does or doesn't get into the HOF, I'd be blue in the face.
     
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  3. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Active Member Full Member

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    Yes there will come a day where it makes sense and we'll be able to tell who is and isn't a "Hall of Famer" based on some generally held understanding of what that is. That day isn't here yet. When starting from scratch it can't make sense for a while because you have to start from the beginning.

    I hold Clarence Henry as the likely minimum standard at HW because I was looking at the list of people in the original HOF and he wasn't a champ or a contender(meaning fighting for the title) and he made it.
     
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  4. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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  5. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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    Obviously somebody cares about my opinion otherwise their goofy ass wouldn't have jumped into the conversation to express their opinion is rebuttal to it........(in case you haven't figured it out, you are the "goofy ass" individual I'm speaking of).

    Please point out what I stated about Wilder that wasn't factual:
    -Him only haven't "a win over 2 world champs in his entire career" ........wasn't my opinion.
    -"Nobody has been inducted into the HOF for beating just a bunch of contenders" ........wasn't my opinion.
    -"His best win on his resume was vs a heavyweight that has never had a title shot except vs him" ........wasn't my opinion...
    -Him haven't a fight vs a man who fought him with "shorts that had pockets".....wasn't my opinion.

    Hey little, do you know what the difference between an opinion and a fact is?.........I'll help you......Most facts are based on something that can be found on a TIMELINE.....meaning it actually occurred in reality...... Opinions on the other hand can be based on emotions, feelings, predictions, something YOU HOPE is going to become a reality someday........ You know, like you saying he's going to be a Hall of Famer.....sounds to me like your emotions (love for the man) has you hoping for a reality to come to fruition.....lol. And that's fine.....Love your man......

    But saying things like his reign was better than Fury's when Wilder doesn't have a single win that eclipses Fury's Klitschko victory, but it lets me know that you aren't a Boxing Fan....You are a Man Fan. Thus I have no idea why you are even attempting to converse with me in regards to boxing for any reason other than begging for attention. Which seems to be the trend for Wilder's fans. If you aren't making excuses for him getting his ass whipped, then you are promoting him to be the greatest thing to occur to the sport......lol.

    You idolize a man who didn't even respect the sport enough to actually learn how to do more than throw a wild hook like he was fighting in some backyard bbq brawl. 48 professional fights.......and the only opponents he's beaten that's ever held a title in their career was Steverne and Liakhovich. And we'll ignore the FACT that Liakhovich held his title for 6 months and had been stopped 4 times before fighting Wilder....Hell, I believe he was coming off a 2 fight losing streak......3 year span before his last win going into a fight vs Wilder.

    Again.....where is my OPINION in this argument. I'm simply pointing out history and understanding that the council definitely looks at the career of these fighters before just anointing them into the HOF........lol.

    Feel free to list Wilder's glorious accomplishments that support your campaign for his induction. You know, the FACTS....milestones....
     
  6. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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    I've given you enough of my attention. I'm going to find something more productive to do with my time. You can continue your love fest for that man. I hope nothing but good comes his way for him and his family. I'm done pointing out obvious facts and then listening to silly Man Fans get so offended that they want to waste energy coming at me as if I got something against Wilder......
     
  7. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Crazy how many likes this has.

    Thinking a 37 year old inactive fighter thats been beaten half to death in back to back fights is the same as when he was young, fresh, active and undefeated.

    Its actually laughable that so many people think that was a prime Wilder against Zhang. Basic biology, neuroscience, and common sense would say otherwise but hey who cares about that junk lol.
     
  8. ruffryders

    ruffryders Member Full Member

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    Wow! lol. Is this what emotional looks like?

    I don’t know who you are pal so don’t mean anything personal against you. I didn’t know you owned the forum and anything posted was a “rebuttal” to you, is this true?

    I made a small comment a few pages ago saying he will get into the HOF. I’ve made other posts saying AJ and usyk will too, possibly even fury. True, it’s not happened yet but this is very highly likely. If people like gatti get in, why wouldn’t the above 4.

    other than you seeming like an emotional crybaby, the only point I see is that I said his reign was better than fury’s.

    I agree the wlad win was good on his record, but reign is about defences.
    during his reign as champ which started 2015, 9 years ago, he’s successfully defended his championship 3x. This was against wilder, Chisora and whyte. That’s it pal. And a judge had to tell him to defend against wilder.

    Please don’t cry to me or get emotional coz I don’t care
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  9. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Active Member Full Member

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    I'm on your side in this argument but you're ignoring a bunch of Furys lineal defenses because there wasn't a formal belt on the line.
     
    JusABoxinFan likes this.
  10. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey It came to me in a dream Full Member

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    I never stated this was a prime Wilder in my original post. I wouldn't say he was beaten half to death in back to back fights either. Parker hurt him once in 12 rounds and even then Wilder rolled most of the shots and leaned on the rounds to avoid anything all too nasty. Fury 2 and 3 were pretty tough for him, yeah, sure but he was still quite competitive in the third fight and the third fight was Wilder's greatest performance imo since it's the only fight he actually took seriously. Maybe Ortiz 1 I guess was pretty tough for a round or two. That's 3 tough fights in a near 50 fight career. We also know he hasn't been in many sparring wars since the man has barely trained at all for any of his fights and admits so himself so he hasn't accrued much damage that way. He's not had massive weight cuts which have taken a lot out of him since he's a HW and was suspiciously able to put on 12 lbs of lean muscle mass in between Ortiz 2 and Fury 2 despite, again, admitting to never actually training properly (how's that for some freaky biology eh?), so we know he has easy access to stimulants which help recovery from his fights. When he was supposedly in his prime he was still a bum without any skill who exclusively fought cans which PBC paid to go down to build up his aura as a big puncher. Under Breland he was kinda alright, you could see the semblance of an okay fighter if you squinted, his footwork was a bit better (if still quite garish) and he threw more but was just as inaccurate and still had no clue how to set up his punches or how to employ good punch selection. Most fighters reach their prime athletically around 26ish but at HW few are actually in title contention at that point and even fewer have the skills, craft, or ring experience to be capable of winning a title at this point. A fighter's prime in their career is usually somewhere in their early 30s as a HW (Lennox peaked in '97 when he was 32, Holmes peaked in '80 when he was 30, and Wlad was 32 when he peaked in '08 or so). There are plenty of cases of HWs going on to perform well into their late 30s and especially more recently, like Usyk being 37 against Fury, Wlad being champion still at 39, or Zhang himself being in his 40s and still being a highly-ranked fighter in the division (or Holmes or Foreman in their later careers for example). It's not like Wilder never threw punches at Zhang either, he landed about 3 flush, full leverage, well-placed straight right hands square on Zhang's chin (one really good one in the fifth in particular) and Zhang barely even blinked because a) he has a solid chin and b) he wasn't being paid to look he'd been shot as soon as he'd been grazed like nearly of Wilder's other opponents were. The point I was trying to make is that Wilder has never really deserved a spot at the top of his division and that his skills, power, and dedication have all been consistently over-valued his whole career. I was also trying to point out that Deontay supposedly being completely washed and spent just because of his age aren't at all the reason he has lost, he's lost because he was never what he was advertised as to begin with. I don't understand why someone having a different opinion from you and other's agreeing with it is "crazy" for you either.
     
  11. bjl12

    bjl12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wilder was popular so he'll get into HOF. Arturo Gatti is in the HOF ffs. Wilder was about as good as Gatti but he had many highlight reel KOs which will buy him votes...irrelevant if they were versus good fighters or not

    Wilder was a fun fighter but he wasnt very good. He was a very divisive person and absolutely SHOULD NOT get into HOF. Between accusing opponents of using egg weights and summoning ancient spirits or accusing his honest HOF trainer of drugging him or saying he wanted to kill someone in the ring or beating his wife...Jesus was this guy a piece of ****.

    His fanbase were primarily just PBC fans which is synonomous w urban population and specifically black and hispanic. Floyd built the most lucrative career in boxing history extorting Mexican and Puerto Rican holidays/opponents due to their rich boxing following. But Floyd backed it up for the most part and was actually an ATG talent. PBC kept trying to sell all their guys as the next Floyd but none of them are or will be. Floyds (or Mannys or Leonards or Alis) dont grow on trees. Nonetheless it was and is that fanbase that loudly supports Wilder regardless of all his shortcomings. And with the way politics are now, with all the cancel culture and all, you can bet Wilder will get into HOF like giving out a trophy in tee-ball.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
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  12. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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    It's kinda hard for me to talk to you without laughing when you try to play victim and be aggressive in the same conversation.....lol. I don't think I need to explain what "rebuttal" means, hopefully you are an adult and can figure that part out yourself.

    I don't need to "own" the forum for me to say anything I've said. For me to point out the facts that I did. For me to push aside the B.S. that you are trying to highlight.

    I bring up you being too emotionally attached to the B.S. you are stating regarding the man you love, then you turn around and try to call me emotional......lol.

    I don't follow your posts, and don't care to. So pointing out that you made posts about whoever else, means nothing to me. You responded to something I wrote and I, as adults do, decided to converse regarding my post.

    Stop acting like a little chick and playing victim. Claiming you don't care, yet you passionately are trying to push your point of view as if it's important to you to either win this conversation, prove me wrong, and/or just simply be heard.

    YOU DO CARE. Otherwise, you would have stopped running your mouth in this conversation a long time ago. You pointed out the obvious. You don't know me..... Correct, I only exist in your life through this conversation. Guess what, if you aren't responding to me.......I DON'T EXIST AT ALL. All you have to do is...............IGNORE ME.

    I'm stating that your logic is dumb and your undying love for Wilder is hilariously unhealthy........ If you don't care......Stop talking to me. Brush me off. Ignore me...... Stop being weird. I'm here to converse boxing with whomever converses with me...... How silly does it look for someone who doesn't care to continue a conversation expressing they don't care about what is being said to them........At this point all I can do is repeat myself to you. So, if you choose to bang away at you keyboard with more emotional nonsense.....I'm going to say something that I've already said........you know............more of the stuff you don't care about........ So is there really a point in continuing?

    Oh, wait.........You must be one of those females who love to have the last word so they feel they've accomplished something. I don't want to take away your glory......Have at it. I'll let you have that......lol.
     
  13. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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    Honestly, this makes a hell of a lot of sense and I agree 100%......I guess Wilder just might make his way into the Hall...... Popularity/Fan Base is part of the sport. I can think of athletes in other sports who made it to the HOF in their respective sport without having an abundance of actual accomplishments. Hell, in boxing, recently, Shawn Porter just got a nod for HOF.......that man lost to every elite he faced. Good fight....even better individual....Had a chance to meet him twice. But isn't elite to me, but he got the call and I respect that........ Well, Wilder, with all his baggage, it's still a good day if/when he gets the nod as well.
     
    bjl12 likes this.
  14. JusABoxinFan

    JusABoxinFan Member Full Member

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    Wilder/PBC fans tend to ignore a lot of accomplishments of other fighters in order to support their claim that their favorite fighter is elite.
     
    bjl12 likes this.
  15. ruffryders

    ruffryders Member Full Member

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    WHAT A CLOWN! :risas3::risas3::risas3: