A Helpful Guide In Processing The Win Over Chisora By The Charismatic Enigma That Is Oleksandr Usyk.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Nov 1, 2020.

  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    238,120
    Likes Received:
    228,531
    Since so many seem gobsmacked to their core, wringing their hands, looking for any kind of angle to latch onto to spin Usyk's performance against Chisora as anything other than a success. Some saying he's not ready for Heavyweight, others saying he struggled mightily, a few poor demented souls even going as far as saying that Chisora did enough to win. Well let me break it down for you all. You either have no idea what you're watching, or you're so biased that your hate goggles have blinded you to reality, or you're being intellectually dishonest and trying to mislead more gullible posters, or worse of all you straight up don't know **** about boxing.

    Now, onto the actual fight. Look, there's a reason why I wasn't all that excited about this match being Usyk's first big test at Heavyweight, and I wasn't bleating on about how Usyk is going to destroy him, because Chisora stylistically is perhaps the worst opponent possible for Usyk to take on in his first big match at Heavyweight.


    As an amateur, a semi-pro and a pro, the main style that has posed problems for Oleksandr, has always been quality pressure fighters and swarmers, with a stout whiskers, who tend to be more on the slightly shorter, stocky and compact side size wise. Who are willing to take one to land one, who are relentless, constantly coming forward never giving their opponent time to think or breath, while throwing wild overhand haymakers, every shot with bad intentions. Even in the WSB and amateurs, that's the style that gave him the most problems. His match against Nistor, who's also a compact swarmer, in the WSB was probably his hardest. So the fact that he aside from a few moments early, pretty much shut out his stylistic nightmare in dominant fashion, is actually more impressive. Not only was this not a bad showing, this was a damn good showing.

    Understand, the idiom styles make fights, exists for a reason. Usyk suffers against this style, and excels against almost every other. Floyd Mayweather, a master boxer, had issues with swarmers, and effectively aggressive pressure fighters, he could easily lay a schooling onto fellow master boxers like Juan Manuel Marquez and solid all rounders like Canelo Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao, but then look like absolute crap against cavemen like Marcos Maidana and still quality, but slightly past it fighters who know how to apply pressure like Miguel Cotto. Now does that mean the moment the bell rang at the end of the first Maidana match, people started prattling on about how Mayweather loses to everyone with a pulse from here on out? Or did they understand that oh wait... I remember, Maidana is just one of those type of fighters that is a royal pain in Floyd's keister? For anyone offering an honest assessment, it was the latter. Floyd had a weak spot, and excelled against almost every other style.

    Now, onto the actual fight. Sure Usyk looked bad in the first two rounds. But Chisora and his corner, who've had basically over a year to prepare for this match up, have thoroughly scouted Usyk, and knew what gave him issues. He also knew that Usyk usually takes about 3 to 4 rounds to get warmed up, download his opponent, so he can dominate them down the stretch. So Del Boy knowing all of this, came out guns blazing, trying to impose his size on Usyk and ragdoll him around the ring. And unlike most fighters at Heavyweight, Chisora is actually capable of executing this strategy to perfection, since it's literally his style, only more often, he fights at a slightly slower pace. But he realized here, time was of the essence. Sure, he seemed to trouble Usyk in Round 1, who reacted poorly when eating a few bombs from Chisora, but hey... this was his first real taste of Heavyweight power. That being said, he acclimated to it quickly, shored up his defenses, weathered a bumpy second, then by the third he'd fully adjusted and he went to work. Aided of course by Chisora (as is the case with almost every other Heavyweight), running out of steam, their monstrously large bodies cannot sustain this kind of pace and level of activity, because they're massive lardasses, and they gas.

    Now, if you were watching closely, Usyk was blocking, holding, pivoting away from, and parrying almost everything being thrown at him. Yes, he ate a few clean to the head, proving his has a decent beard once again, but almost everything else either did not land clean or was blocked. Well this sport is all about hitting, and not getting hit. It's the sweet science after all. It doesn't matter how good or bad someone looks during a round, if one guy is going crazy throwing a ton, but landing three, where the other guy is composed, throwing very little, but his connect percentage is quite high, then the second guy wins the round. It's the same reason why Ricky Hatton looked like a whirling dervish against Floyd for the majority of the match, yet hardly won a goddamn round, because all he was hitting was air, arms, gloves or shoulders. Yet even though Floyd was only throwing sporadically, almost everything he threw, he landed, then it started taking a toll, and by the end, he destroyed him with that check hook. The same scenario played out last night. Chisora was hitting arms, shoulders, back, legs, and mostly air, while hardly ever making contact with Usyk's body or head, which is the only places the punches count. So Del Boy's clubbing haymakers, that he bludgeoned Usyk's forearms with, meant nothing. But all of the shots that Usyk peppered the hell out of him with, clean flush to the noggin, meant something, and yes.... they counted.

    So if utilizing the 4 main scoring criteria used by most boxing judges, Chisora failed in almost all four of them. Was his aggression effective? Aside form the first round, no, Was he the ring general? Aside from the first round.... no. Were his punches, clean and hard? No. Was his defense top notch? Absolutely not. Whereas Usyk clearly landed the cleaner and at times harder shots, his defense in most rounds was impeccable, when he was aggressive, he was effective, and on the backfoot and the frontfoot, he was the Ring General. Open and shut, quite easy to score. Sure, after he had him badly hurt and ready to go in the seventh, Usyk inexplicably took his foot off the gas. Well Del Boy tried to take advantage of that, but he couldn't. His aggressive was even less effective, and in between Dereck's spurts of labored activity, Usyk was landing in combination. So any talk of this match being close or hard to score, is utter nonsense and I don't want to hear any of it.

    Also, a little consistency would be nice. As in, the criteria for slickness can't shift from match to match.You can't say one guy is laying down a schooling, while the other guy marches forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried and getting lit up in between is losing, then turnaround and in the same breath.... say when witnessing the exact same scenario, that the guy marching forward winging wild shots that are not landing or are being blocked and parried, and getting lit up in between is winning.

    Open and shut, Usyk struggled for a round, steadied the ship while not looking great in the second, took over in the third, and dominated the rest of the match.
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    238,120
    Likes Received:
    228,531
    Then people will say, but he struggled with the shell of Del Boy! But did he? After all, this was a revitalized Del Boy that was coming off of arguably beating Dillian Whyte in a war, violently KOing Takam more brutally than Anthony Joshua, KOing Szpilka more brutally than Kownacki, and far quicker than Wilder. And of course, coming off of dispatching David Price quicker than Alexander Povetkin. Sure, he lost to Whyte in the rematch, a rematch that was damn close, until the ref started trying to handicap it for Whyte, causing Del Boy to panic and get sloppy, and in the process getting KTFO. Regardless, when Chisora loses, he only loses to the best of the best. He's a measuring stick, and the ultimate heavyweight gatekeeper. Who gave Fury hell early in their match, rocking him a few times. He got brutally robbed against Helenius. He hurt Pulev a few times, went into the Kabayel fight under prepared, but still managed to close strong down the stretch, and arguably do enough to get a draw. He's tough as shoe leather, and the only times he's been KO'd was when he was getting wild, and walking into bombs, from massive punchers like Haye and Whyte. So spare me with the bum talk. Especially when many of the same people on here currently giving Usyk grief for this performance, were the same ones saying Chisora would give him hell. So the shot and past it line of crap is disingenuous and hypocritical as hell. Also...need I remind most of you... many of you maniacs obsessively blew smoke up Dillian Whyte's ass for YEARS on here. Saying Wilder was terrified of him and that he could beat AJ. When he not only went life and death once, but twice with Chisora. And that Whyte was a P4P top Heavyweight, based on his mostly controversial wins. So anyone who praised Whyte, that's currently slagging on Usyk, **** right off.

    So, Usyk made his real debut at Heavyweight against an in shape, focused hard charging stylistic nightmare, and aside from a problematic first, passed the test with flying colors. Now what does this tell us about how well he's going to perform against the rest of the behemoths that stand before him? Absolutely NOTHING. Styles make fights. Everyone else's style is nothing like Chisora's. So don't go getting your hopes up. He right out of teh gate faced a nightmare style, and tamed him in 3 rounds. No one else at Heavyweight brings the variables or issues to the table that Chisora does. Usyk's movement, backfoot game, angles, elusiveness, footwork, hand speed, stamina will be a problem for everyone else, and that includes Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua. Fury even if he brings the rough and rugged style he brought to the Wilder rematch, Usyk will not be a sitting target for any of those shots. Wilder is risk averse, and AJ is as well, not to mention, both are lumbering, and tend to refer stationary targets that are there to be hit. Take the style that gave Fury issues, like Wallin, well Usyk does everything better than Wallin. The style that gave AJ problems, like Parker and Ruiz, Usyk does everything better than they do. The styles that have given Wilder issues, slick southpaws, Szpilka and Ortiz, Usyk is far slicker, with far better stamina than both of them. Also need I remind you, for the 8000th time, that Usyk has always performed far better against taller fighters? Now am I saying Usyk can't be beaten? No. It's Heavyweight, everyone can be beaten. But the people who seem to have convinced themselves that it will be a walk in the park for the Big 3, you're deluding yourselves.

    But please... be my guest, get your hopes up.
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Messages:
    36,654
    Likes Received:
    16,531
    Different levels.
     
  4. Deew

    Deew Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    776
    Usyk's manager allegedly scored it a draw.

    Usyk himself rated a 3/10 performance.

    I didn't score it, but my own feeling was that it was 8-4 Usyk all the way

    Definitely room for improvement, and ofc, styles make fight.
     
    Yaiyr Alexander, N17, sasto and 5 others like this.
  5. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    44,063
    Likes Received:
    31,516
    I really liked how Chisora utilized the southpaw jab.
    He stepped into it just like he would throw a looping right.
    It gave Usyk hell and he never quite figured it out.

    Chisora showed that he is a true veteran and still a capable top tier operator.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    58,748
    Likes Received:
    21,553
    Haven't got time to read all that. Is there really that much to say ?

    Usyk beat Chisora clearly. As most of us expected.
    Not as impressive as I expected from Usyk, I expected something like a vicious stoppage in about 7 rounds, after winning every round.
    Because Usyk is good ....
    .... and ....
    Chisora is a fat pudding, a gatekeeper, who was knocked the **** out by Dillian Whyte a couple of years ago, clearly outpointed by Agit Kabayel and Kubrat Pulev. He's a stumpy-armed plodder, almost 37 years old. Chisora is nothing special. A win over Chisora might earn a fighter fringe contender status these days. Yeah, it'll put you clear above David Price and Arthur Spzilka. So, almost meaningless for Usyk.
     
    sasto, eltirado, lobk and 3 others like this.
  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    238,120
    Likes Received:
    228,531
    Well try reading it, because I cover every point you're using the dismiss Usyk's chances, pretty thoroughly.
     
    gollumsluvslave, Badbot, N17 and 4 others like this.
  8. Carlton Cole

    Carlton Cole Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    271
    AJ stops Usyk. Bad match up for the Ukrainian, susceptible to a straight right down the pipe and I think AJ would time him
     
    macademics and Staminakills like this.
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    58,748
    Likes Received:
    21,553
    Ok, I just read it.
    You perhaps try to boost and bolster Chisora a bit but you know he's crap. You almost make excuses for his losses to Kabayel and the 2nd fight with Whyte. You've said many times what you think of Whyte, and let's face it, Chisora is no better than Whyte, he's worse.

    If Chisora's is the worst style for Usyk, that's a major weakness for Usyk. Neither of us can prove how he'd do against the likes of Joshua until he faces him. All I can say is that Usyk was underwhelming against Chisora, and looked troubled by a bit of early pressure from a guy with slow hands and slow feet. It was a clear win but doesn't say much.

    Of course, he has a chance against anyone. I just haven't seen any evidence that he has a really strong chance against the best heavyweights right now.

    Maybe he should have fought someone big who we can all agree is quite good and not an old plodder like Chisora.
    Usyk is 33 already and probably isn't getting any better. He's not going to get faster or more mobile, which a good quality strengths of his right right now - he'll be declining inside the next few years. We'll see how he does.
     
    mrkoolkevin, lobk and Staminakills like this.
  10. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2020
    Messages:
    5,822
    Likes Received:
    2,116
    he is not bad. Dereck is very slow, yeah.

    Bad news for Usyk, might move back to CW and attempt clean division again. Egis with towel in corner might be nice addition.
    Ruiz, Fury and A.J
    Then in CW with Okolie, Briedis and Dorticos.

    Division cleaner:D.
     
  11. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Trivial Annoyance Gold Medalist Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16,188
    Likes Received:
    13,230
    Yeah, I agree. As I said in other posts, I didn't think it was a particularly close fight. I also felt Usyk had another gear to click into if needed. I keep hearing how his power will be an issue, but only one of those guys was nearly stopped and it wasn't Usyk. Besides, he doesn't sit his feet down and throw bombs anyway. It's like looking at a Ferrari and questioning its off road ability.

    And even so, I don't like how "he doesn't beat AJ or Fury" is being portrayed as some sort of slight on the guy. I don't think he beats Fury. I'm not sure he beats AJ, but AJ doesn't like to work at someone else's pace for 12 rounds and he sure as Hell doesn't like mixing on the inside with smaller guys, so who knows.

    I had it 10-2. So on my cards that's a better showing than Kayabel, Whyte and Pulev managed. I don't know how you can watch him comfortably beat an actual Heavyweight without getting particularly hurt and then say he doesn't belong at HW.
     
    catchwtboxing, Deew, N17 and 6 others like this.
  12. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    14,756
    Likes Received:
    18,952
    I just rewatched the fight again today, and despite Usyk looking a bit flat he still thoroughly outboxed Chisora by a wide margin. Most of Chisora's punches were just landing on gloves or elbows, and a lot of his pressure was ineffective. Usyk could have been a bit sharper with his shots, but considering it was his first fight back after god knows how long he did as well as could be expected.
     
  13. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Trivial Annoyance Gold Medalist Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16,188
    Likes Received:
    13,230
    A lot of the people I'm seeing **** on that win were the same ones saying he'll crumble as soon as a 'real' HW lands on him.
     
  14. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Messages:
    14,756
    Likes Received:
    18,952
    Yeah, it's the same old story. Now predictably Chisora is being painted as a plodding old B fighter in favour of whoever's next on the menu. I see Ruiz is being given a chance.
     
    catchwtboxing, Staminakills and CST80 like this.
  15. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Trivial Annoyance Gold Medalist Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16,188
    Likes Received:
    13,230
    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Chisora is great and certainly suffers against movers. But he's no a bum. Showed to operate in and around the same level as Whyte could and that level seems to make you a top fighter in this current HW world.

    You know what needs to happen? Gassiev-Briedis at HW.