A Joe Jeanette thread

I have watched Unforgivable blackness, and read the book. It does not say Johnson lost clean to Hart, it actually loosely suggests Johnson was robbed. I'm going to assume it's one of those ambiguous contests, like Trinidad-De La Hoya or Chavez-Whitaker.

Too many people, Johnson himself, his own manager Little (who hated him), Ketchels management (if I'm not mistaken) and Johnsons sparring partners eg. Jack O'Keefe have claimed that the Ketchel fight was prepared with the theatrical ending.

Film was poor, but also limited. According to Unforgivable Blackness footage of the first three rounds Vs Burns does not exist, at least it's not consistent with fight reports. Perhaps you can clarify this for me if it's not correct.

I would be interested in the Gunboat Smith newsreads if you don't mind posting the links for me :good I tend to take sparring stories with a grain of salt, but they're interesting nonetheless.

Johnson received 5K but Burns, as champion, received 30K. That's a fair bit of wad for those times.

And yeh, Johnson did draw the colour line as heavyweight champ. But we can't ignore his reign as coloured heavyweight champion, where he quite clearly was not able to draw the colour line.

 

Gunboat Smith's peak was a short one though. He was past it after his win over Willard. By his own words, that fight took a lot out of him.

 

I'm not argueing with him being a top guy, I'm just noting that by his own words, he was no longer the same after that hard fight with Willard, mentally and physically. Even though he scored some more good wins after that, he felt he was at his best before Willard.

 

An interview with Jack Johnson, published in Boxing in 1910 (quoted in one later book):

"I never had to go all out against any man except Sam McVea. He was the toughest proposition I ever tackled. Joe Jeannette, who met me seven times altogether, was pretty tough, and could take all the punches I could give him, but he never gave me the trouble that Sam did, or all he was always coming back at me. But then most of my meetings with Jeannette were short affairs, while each of my three meetings with McVea went twenty rounds. I got the decision twice and knocked him out the third time, but he was never what you call an easy job to tackle. He carried a heavy one-two punch with his left that you had to watch out for always ... The left wanted all the eyes you could spare ... He wasn't a man you could take chances with safely ... McVea hasn't had a man you could take chances with safely ... McVea hasn't had his due from the sporting writers, for he was as good as either Langford or Jeannette--better, I think, but he didn't get written up as these two have been. Langford carries a big wallop, I know, and is swift and clever with both hands and feet, and Jeannette is a man who will go on for ever, but they are men you can watch out for, and men you just know how to fight, while McVea is different ... You can't hurt him easily, and his body is so hard that you don't get much change out of punching it ; while that left of his is something you can't estimate. All you know about it is that it is bound to get home some time or other, and that when it does you will be a wise guy if you just hold on and recover a bit before thinking about going after him to get some of your own back."

 

GREAT POSTS!!!

I have to agree with Mendoza - Jack Johnson should have defended
his title against Jeanette, Langford and McVea.

BTW, a poster stated that the Willard fight took alot out of Gunboat
Smith. In the great book "In This Corner", Smith stated that the
first Langford fight was the fight that took alot out of him.

Not to take anything away from Gunboat Smith, but I wonder if
Langford was holding back in that fight, because Langford easily
KOED Smith in their rematch.

For the record - I am a fan of Jack Johnson (as well as Sam Langford).
But, Jeanette, Langford & McVea should have received title fights,
cause THEY were the best CONTENDERS!!!

Grebfan9
[url]www.firstroundboxing.com[/url]

 

Joe Jeannette deserves to be remembered.

At 5'10", 190 pounds, he was a skillful boxer/puncher with nothing less than a huge punch, excellent defense and limitless stamina. His chin was not the hardest but solid.

Perhaps he was just a notch below Jack Johnson and Sam Langford, as he fought the former 10 times, losing twice, winning once, the rest draws or no decisions; the latter he fought 14 times, winning 3 while losing 4; he was about Johnson's age while being 4 years older than Langford.

It is a shame he was not given a chance to fight for the title because of his color, but he should be done justice and rightfully considered one of the greatest heavyweight fighters of all time.

 

"That was my hardest fight. It took more out of me than anything else. That Willard, he could hit like the blazes of hell with that right-hand uppercut. You couldn't hurt him, either - and I could hit in those days."
-- Gunboat Smith, on his fight vs. Jess Willard.

 

1. He was being asked to pick up the pace, yes, but then again so was Meldrick Taylor Vs Chavez in the last round, and look what happened there! The book says he was easily in control for the first ten rounds, and then quotes the police gazette. Have you actually read it? How this is "admission that Johnson lost" is truly beyond me.

2. Unforgivable Blackness claims and cites sources. Watch the footage yourself and you'll see Johnson was not hit, the ending was choreographed.

3. Admittedly Jack Johnsons title reign was one of the worst ever. But his reign as colored heavyweight champion more than makes up for it, he sent an open challenge to EVERY white fighter out there, with the only stipulation being that if he defeated all of them, he'd have to get a title fight Vs Jeffries. Everyone declined. Eventually he'd get his chance, but not without going through hell first.

4. Bob Armstrong? You must be kidding right? He retired in 1904, and Jack Johnson must have close to ten wins against fighters who defeated him. Holding this against Johnson would be similar to accusing Floyd Mayweather of "ducking" Paulie Malignaggi.

5. Johnson turned up drunk to the O'Brien fight, he didn't take it seriously, because as he pointed out, "he knew at his best he'd be able to beat six O'Briens", it was a sixround fight in which Johnson knocked O'Brien down twice despite his state.

 

What's the consensus on Joe Jeanette. Seems a lot of information has surfaced on him since this thread was created. Historically, underrated or overrated? He certainly was durable having been only stopped twice but yet seemed easy to knockdown. He was put it again the best very early on and faired well, but he also seemed to never gain a distinct advantage over the upper class opponents he faced. He lost the series to Langford and Johnson. He was pretty even with Mcvey and only had a slight edge over Battling Jim Johnson. He also may have lost to Carpentier. Is he a top 35 heavy?

 

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