A list of the best active fighters' resumes in Lineal title fights. Observations?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Nonito Smoak, Nov 30, 2014.


  1. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    Below is a list of some of the most notable active fighters who are still at or near the top of the sport and who will make or have a worthy enough chance to make the Hall of Fame one day. Listed is each of their record in Lineal title fights throughout their career up until this point...

    I have tried to use my best judgement as the case of a lineal champion is oddly debatable too frequently. Listed alphabetically with fights by division and then in order of occurrence...

    -------------

    Timothy Bradley, 0-0

    Miguel Cotto, 2-0 w/ 2 KO's, 160 champion
    160: W RTD10 Sergio Martinez, W TKO4 Daniel Geale

    Nonito Donaire, 2-1 w/ 2 KO's, 122 champion
    122: W TKO9 Toshiaki Nishioka, W KO3 Jorge Arce, L UD12 Guillermo Rigondeaux

    Carl Froch, 0-1
    168: L UD12 Andre Ward

    Roman Gonzalez, 4-0 w/ 4 KO's, 112 champion
    112: W TKO9 Akira Yaegashi, W TKO6 Rocky Fuentes, W TKO2 Edgar Sosa, W TKO9 Roman Gonzalez

    Bernard Hopkins, 10-4-1-1 w/ 4 KO's, 160 + 175 champion
    160: W TKO12 Felix Trinidad, W RTD10 Carl Daniels, W RTD8 Morrade Hakkar, W UD12 William Joppy, W UD12 Robert Allen III, W KO9 Oscar de la Hoya, W UD12 Howard Eastman, L SD12 Jermain Taylor, L UD12 Jermain Taylor
    175: W UD12 Antonio Tarver, W UD12 Winky Wright, L SD12 Joe Calzaghe, D12 Jean Pascal I, W UD12 Jean Pascal II, NC2 Chad Dawson I, L MD12 Chad Dawson II

    Wladimir Klitschko, 12-0 w/ 8 KO's, Heavyweight champion
    Heavyweight: W RTD9 Ruslan Chagaev, W KO12 Eddie Chambers, W KO10 Samuel Peter II, W UD12 David Haye, W KO4 Jean Marc Mormeck, W TKO6 Tony Thompson II, W UD12 Mariusz Wach, W TKO6 Francesco Pianeta, W UD12 Alexander Povetkin, W TKO5 Alex Leapai, W KO5 Kubrat Pulev, W UD12 Bryant Jennings

    Juan Manuel Marquez, 4-1-1 w/ 3 KO's, 135 champion
    126: D12 Manny Pacquiao I
    130: L SD12 Manny Pacquiao II
    135: W TKO11 Joel Casamayor, W TKO9 Juan Diaz, W UD12 Juan Diaz II, W TKO9 Michael Katsidis

    Floyd Mayweather Jr, 16-0 w/ 8 KO's, 130 + 135 + 147 + 154 champion
    130: W RTD8 Genaro Hernandez, W TKO2 Angel Manfredy, W UD12 Carlos Rios, W KO9 Justin Juuko, W RTD7 Carlos Gerena, W UD12 Gregorio Vargas, W TKO10 Diego Corrales, W UD12 Carlos Hernandez, W RTD9 Jesus Chavez
    135: W UD12 Jose Luis Castillo II, W UD12 Victoriano Sosa, W TKO7 Phillip Ndou
    147: W UD12 Carlos Baldomir, W TKO10 Ricky Hatton, W UD12 Manny Pacquiao
    154: W MD12 Saul Alvarez

    Manny Pacquiao, 6-2-1 w/ 5 KO's, 112 + 126 + 130 + 140 champion
    112: W KO8 Chatchai Sasakul, W TKO4 Gabriel Mira, L TKO3 Medgoen Singsurat
    126: W TKO11 Marco Antonio Barrera I, D12 Juan Manuel Marquez I, W TKO4 Fashan 3K Battery
    130: W SD12 Juan Manuel Marquez II
    140: W KO2 Ricky Hatton
    147: L UD12 Floyd Mayweather

    Guillermo Rigondeaux, 4-0 w/ 2 KO's, 122 champion
    122: W UD12 Nonito Donaire, W UD12 Joseph Agbeko, W KO1 Sod Kokietgym, W RTD11 Hisashi Amagasa

    Andre Ward, 3-0 w/ 1 KO, 168 champion
    168: W UD12 Carl Froch, W TKO10 Chad Dawson, W UD12 Edwin Rodriguez

    ---------------------------

    What are your observations? How do you rank their resumes in lineal title fights?
     
  2. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
  3. bandeedo

    bandeedo Loyal Member Full Member

    36,052
    24,037
    Feb 19, 2007
    6/10
    doeant mean much but i was impressed with the creativity in finding new way to suck floyds clit.
     
  4. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,289
    38,079
    Aug 28, 2012
    Lineal doesn't work anymore and probably hasn't been a viable way of tracking ability since the eighties. The only way to be fair is to count everyone who has a belt and treat their defenses as legitimate. Nonito Donaire has been in 17 title fights and you are only giving him credit for 3. Pacquiao has been in 36 title fights whereas you only credit him with 8. Hopkins has 35 but you credit him 16. Klitschko has 27 but you give him 11. I think doing it your way dramatically distorts some of these guys' records.
     
  5. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    And I think doing it your way dramatically distorts the records sometimes too.

    I do agree with what you say to an extent, however. Of course this has nothing to do with which fighter is better and in the end a win and performance over Fighter X is just as good lineal title on the line or not. Just interesting to see how much or little some great fighters have competed in lineal bouts among their many years.

    Rarely are lineal champions not recognized as the best in the division and that because of the principle of what the lineal title is. And never winning a lineal title from vacancy shows you were never the #1 or #2 in a single division facing the other, which is significant if it's done.
     
  6. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    Scheduled:
    5/16- Roman Gonzalez vs. Edgar Sosa
    6/6- Miguel Cotto vs. Daniel Geale
     
  7. canucks9314

    canucks9314 Iron Chinned ATG Warrior Full Member

    11,933
    10
    Jun 21, 2011
    Weren't Mayweather/Mosley #2/#1 at WW? Or was Pac #2?
     
  8. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

    93,213
    27,921
    Jan 18, 2010
    It shows how dodgy that lineal title thing has become.
    We have had undisputed champions like Mike Tyson who wasn't even the lineal champ for a number of fights. And with today's rival network cráp, robberies, some boxers being allowed to pick their own opponents and dodge the dangerous ones or not even fighting at all, it's completely watered down to a footnote.

    Who actually believe that Hernandez should be the Cruiser champ, Stevenson at LHW, Ward still at SMW, Cotto at MW and Garcia at LWW if boxing was about the best fighting the best and non corrupt? :blood
     
  9. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,734
    6,149
    May 2, 2015
    Sounded terrible when you say it like that, and very good point.
     
  10. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    It's always been this way, though. The lineal champ isn't always the #1 in the division and the lineal champ often times doesn't face the best possible contender. Nothing new.

    Stevenson and Cotto clearly deserved it for beating "the man." Ward and Garcia legitimately filled vacancies.

    I could go on a large rant about the BS dropping of Huck (despite a WBO title defense less than 6 months prior) to allow for YPH vs. Cunningham to be for the vacant title. Total BS, that one. I've never recognized him as lineal champion despite being the Ring champion. Similar to how I didn't recognize Garcia until after he beat Matthysse, not for beating Khan a year earlier like the Ring granted. The Ring title is totally watered down. A true lineal title (unfortunately also debatable) in my opinion is not. I tried to choose consensus lineages for this thread.
     
  11. cleming

    cleming Active Member Full Member

    719
    176
    Sep 3, 2012
    Genaro Hernandez (a great fighter) was the lineal super-featherweight champ ?
     
  12. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,289
    38,079
    Aug 28, 2012
    I wouldn't be surprised if the lineal title was more often than not following the regular line of the WBC or the WBA belts and prone to the same kind of distortions you'd get if you just threw in your lot with one of the major sanctioning bodies. Oh, and if the champ drops a belt or gets stripped for not fighting a mandatory, like Holmes, Bowe, Quillin, and Mayweather did, do you still consider that whoever beats him then gets the lineal belt? Or does it drop to the #2 in that division? Or perhaps you give your lineal belt to whoever wins between the #2 and #3 in a match the way the sanctioning bodies do. You must have a contingency like that for cases where the champ either dies or retires.
     
  13. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,289
    38,079
    Aug 28, 2012
    Anyway, lineal is bull****. Either all the major belts count equally, or they only count when they are unified. Far as I see it, lineal is just another fake belt. Go tell Golovkin, Hopkins, Klitschko, and Pacquiao that most of their fights "don't count."
     
  14. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    Nobody is saying that...
     
  15. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

    53,088
    6,686
    Sep 8, 2010
    Are you aware that lineal titles have nothing to do with the other belts and become vacant upon retirement or long term moving up in weight?

    So if a fighter drops their ABC belts, like Ricky Hatton did when he moved up to face Mayweather at 147, he still remains lineal champ champ when he moves back down for his next fight. Hatton never won another sanctioned title but still held and then handed off the 140 lineal title to Pacquiao when Pac put him to sleep.

    At the start of 2010 there were only I believe 6 lineal champions across the 17 divisions.