A look at Duran’s record at Welter

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JLP1978, Jul 14, 2020.


  1. JLP1978

    JLP1978 Member Full Member

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    Hello,

    Recently we had a discussion about Duran versus Hearns at 147. I tend to think of Duran as a beast at 147 based on his Montreal version. However when I looked some of his other fights at that weight his performances ranged from brilliant to good but not great (excluding the No Mas)

    If I tallied it correctly it is 9-1 4KOs. That is obviously not a lot to work with when considering him versus the other all time great welterweights like Hearns.

    I checked the 1980 Welterweight rankings on BoxRec and I found that of course Leonard was the champ, Hearns was 2, Benítez 3 Cuevas 4 and Duran 5.

    That is a tall order to go through after Duran one the title. I personally have scored the Montreal fight for Leonard at times and Leonard fought the wrong fight (had he moved I think the fight favors Leonard). I think that Hearns has tons of advantages against Duran..I also wonder if Duran could lay a glove on Benítez without facing significant counters. Duran destroys Cuevas.

    My underlining thought...as sacrilege as it may sound, do we overrate Duran at welter based on one/two fights?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As undeniably great as he was, yes. He tends to get overrated as a whole. I think it's because people fall in love with this image of what they view as the Complete Fighter to be, and his part-man-part-animal persona gives them all that and more. He's a symbol as much as he was a fighter.
     
  3. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Duran was so great he cannot be overrated at all.
     
  4. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    I doubt anybody rates him highly at Welter based on his body of work there. They rate him for the ability he showed during the small window that was left of his prime after he moved up from Lightweight.
     
  5. William Walker

    William Walker Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Keep in mind Duran had already been fighting for 11 years when he turned welterweight, and naturally by the 80s he would begin to decline anyway.
     
  6. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He wasn't fighting 11 years as a pro when he turned welterweight in May 1977. Had he been fighting in earlier epochs, he'd considered welterweight around 1972 already.
     
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  7. vast

    vast Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Duran is an ATG for his storied accomplishments.
     
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Duran is worth the appraisal he receives, but only when we take his entire career collectively and not just in any single division ( except lightweight. ) His welterweight record though only 9-1 was still impressive by virtue of the fact that he defeated two prime hall of fame inductees - one of which was one of the division’s greatest ever participants... That said I’m not sure if I’d ever favor him to beat Thomas Hearns in that class. For one thing Duran got positively KILLED in their actual meeting, even if it was at a higher weight and past Roberto’s pinnacle. For another, Hitman was pretty damn awesome at 147 and had a type of style and physicality that would always be wrong for the hands of stone. Still you’d have to give Duran a fair chance against almost anyone at welter. Beating Sugar Ray Leonard in his prime is pretty damn hard to argue against.
     
  9. JLP1978

    JLP1978 Member Full Member

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    Very convincing argument.

    I wonder if you think he beats Benítez at 147. I think at 135 there weren’t many fighters around to give him stylistic issues and the few that were their did not have the drive or power to make it work.

    At 147 Leonard, Hearns and Benítez all the drive, skill and and power (Benítez’s power is good enough to get Duran’s attention because it is coming by way of countering.

    We place so much emphasis one fight now. Imagine if Duran only fought DeJesus once. I think that Duran in the first Leonard fight was something special. But he was not that fighter in any other Welterweight fight. Not even the Palomino fight (Duran was brilliant stylistically, but Montreal Duran would have put Palomino away.) It wasn’t a fluke but in the second Leonard fighter, there was no fire...and that was similar to the other fights I have seen if him at Welter.

    Duran deserves respect for beating Leonard once and Palomino...but he also lost to Ray. Because of that I have to say that Duran, because of his lightweight reign gets too much credit for what he might do versus would he did do.

    He should not be favored over other great Welterweights just like DeJesus should not be favored over other great Lightweights based on one or two wins unless the difference is the style matchup that Montreal Duran presents to his opponent.
     
  10. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nice post. Yeah you can’t make someone a favorite across the board because of one big win, though it should be noted that he also beat Carlos Palamino at 147 as well. As per your question about Duran and Benitez meeting at welter, I’m honestly not sure.
     
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  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duran is difficult to rate at Welterweight; partly because of his brief time in the class, but perhaps more confoundingly, because of the extremes we saw in him there - Both the very best and the very worst, witnessed during 1980.

    The Montreal win is what gets him on the top-end of the Welterweight radar. It's then just a case of how much one wants to takeaway from that, with the brevity and New Orleans loss.

    For mine, his beating Leonard, trumps just about any win I've ever seen. Difficult then for me to mark him down too harshly, in the wake of a loss and his exiting the division for 154, thereafter.
     
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  12. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Guido Full Member

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    He has the single best win in welterweight history
     
  13. JLP1978

    JLP1978 Member Full Member

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    Yes. I have never thought that before but, I have to agree. However he also has the worst loss.

    Most of us don’t hold that loss against him (not sure if there is a good excuse) but we should still factor it in when assessing him at this weight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  14. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Guido Full Member

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    I actually don't think it should be factored in heavily because the loss had as much to do with what happened outside the ring as it did inside the ring. Not only that, but up until he quit I thought he was doing pretty well for a guy who was completely out of shape. It was competitive for the most part and that was still prime Leonard with everything to prove he was facing
     
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  15. JLP1978

    JLP1978 Member Full Member

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    I think the shape the Duran came into the second fight was indicative of how he came into most of his 10 fights at welterweight. Even the Palomino fight he wasn’t the same as the Montreal Duran.

    I also penalize him for not coming in shape for he second biggest fight of his career. Not something that other all-time great welterweights would do. Certainly not Leonard.

    I think I scored about 3 rounds for him in the No Mas fight. It was getting competitive but Leonard realized something and completely mocked Duran. Whatever Duran’s issue was he was an elite professional and a lesser fighter would not have made Duran quit. Duran would have toughed it out.

    Thoughts?
     
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