A look at Duran’s record at Welter

JLP1978 · Jul 18, 2020

Philly, here are my scores.

I have it 8 round to 7 for Leonard. I always give Duran 2-4. I always give Leonard 5-7 and 14, 15. The hardest round is the 1st. I usually score that for Leonard but today I gave that to Duran because I felt he had better effective aggression.

D 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10, 12
L 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15

I recognize that this is perhaps astonishing but I have consistently scored it for Leonard and I feel like I am a robbing it when I don’t. With that said I have no problem with this being scored for Duran and it is testament to his greatness to perform like he did in Montreal.

The thing against Leonard is he looks green, his trunks look funny and he looks a little goofy with his body language. He doesn’t look confident and like we are used to seeing with Leonard. Still when he plants his feet and throws he is banging inside just as much as Duran...Duran just looks cooler and more assertive

PhillyPhan69 · Jul 18, 2020

JLP1978 said: ↑

Philly, here are my scores.

I have it 8 round to 7 for Leonard. I always give Duran 2-4. I always give Leonard 5-7 and 14, 15. The hardest round is the 1st. I usually score that for Leonard but today I gave that to Duran because I felt he had better effective aggression.

D 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10, 12
L 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15

I recognize that this is perhaps astonishing but I have consistently scored it for Leonard and I feel like I am a robbing it when I don’t. With that said I have no problem with this being scored for Duran and it is testament to his greatness to perform like he did in Montreal.

The thing against Leonard is he looks green, his trunks look funny and he looks a little goofy with his body language. He doesn’t look confident and like we are used to seeing with Leonard. Still when he plants his feet and throws he is banging inside just as much as Duran...Duran just looks cooler and more assertive
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That’s cool, bro thanks for sharing. I have really enjoyed your posts despite disagreeing wildly with this scorecard. I doubt we will change each other’s minds on this fight. But, while there are very few who score this for Leonard, there are a couple who I respect (you included) who see it otherwise. Personally I am not a fan (but certainly an appreciator) of either guy, so I don’t have a dog in this fight either way lol.

JohnThomas1 · Jul 18, 2020

he grant said: ↑

I do appreciate your points as always JT , you're a very sharp guy , I just see it a bit different .. Hearns was tiring and looking beatable when Weston was thumbed and had too stop .. Shields was tough but not a great fighter .. he went on to the late rounds and showed that Hearns stamina was dicey and his power diminished late .. even in the Baez fight before Leonard he looked very wild and overzealous looking for a big KO before the huge showdown ..

I watched Hearn's his whole career .. he was courageous, fast, a huge puncher with the right hand and a freakish figure .. that said, even at his best he was highly flawed .. his chin was never great, he was vulnerable to body punishment, his stamina was questionable if he did not control the pace .. he had one big win at welter against Cuevas .. then post Leonard his career at 147 was over .. he adapted to 154, what would be his best weight but even then did not great against Singletary, Sutherland or Minchillo .. his absolute peak was against Duran .. maybe he always beats Duran but Duran came into that fight with the same unfocused look Lewis did against McCall the first time .. at middleweight Hearns was crushed early by Hagler losing v his legs in the first round .. he was shaky as hell against Kitchen, Roldan and Barkley .. for all the talk of him getting robbed in the Leonard rematch there is little memory of him hanging on for his life I the last round to avoid an exact repeat of their first fight ..

Back to welter still I find him over rated .. I think Tito had a much more accomplished career as did Oscar .. as did a prime Curry .. I am not saying I didn't love watching the guy. He was super exciting and had some of the most amazing wins and losses .. I just think he was always a flawed and vulnerable fighter in addition to being such an explosive one that you just never knew ..

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Hey cheers for the expansion HG. We see it a bit different but i do understand where you are coming from even if we don't quite align. Hearns did have his flaws (which is why he isn't rated higher than where he is) but very few would ever be able to take advantage of them imo, certainly at 147 and 154. You had to get past his strengths which many a fine fighter simply couldn't do. I also think he took quite a bit out of Hagler when they fought.

Personally i can't rank Tito, Oscar or Curry over him. Curry looked great for a while and fought at a superb level but his loss to Honeyghan (and i do accept the excuses) was ugly comparative to Hearns historical effort against the consensus #2 Welter. Tito has longevity there but there wasn't an immense amount going on. Respect your view tho mate.

Reinhardt · Jul 19, 2020

he grant said: ↑

I say Ray L. beats all and gives Robinson a hell of a fight. Duran as well .. the best Duran , H2H, a top five welter for sure .. Hearns, a gutsy warrior is getting very over rated by many , especially at welter .. talk about one big division win .. people forget his fights against Harold Weston and Randy Shields ..
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Totally agree with your Hearns analysis

Unforgiven · Jul 20, 2020

I actually rate Duran higher on a welterweight list than a lot of people here seem to do ..... but I rate Leonard lower. I'd probaly have Leonard in the #5 to #9 range, and Duran in the #15 to #20 range, on an all-time welterweight list.

christpuncher · Jul 29, 2020

JLP1978 said: ↑

I need to be schooled how great Palomino was and how great he was when he took that fight. He retired retired after that fight.

Duran looked great in that Palomino fight but that may have been somewhat due to Palomino not being at his best that night and looking for a reason to retire. I think that Hearns KOs that Palomino in a few rounds as well as Leonard.

For me that leaves the win over Leonard the only thing to talk about for Duran at welter. It was not a fluke...but he had a chance to do it again and he quit.

Duran at welter had one splendid fight where he looked like one of the best ever at that weight. But honestly...take away the Leonard fights and he accomplished nothing and had he faced Hearns instead of Leonard is it a reasonable chance he loses...and not on points.

Even in the fight that he won against Leonard was so close that it isn’t clear the absolute winner. It isn’t like he beat Leonard up. Hearns was beating Leonard up when Hearns’ chin was revealed to be what it was.
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Do you expect anyone to beat Leonard up? Duran the blown up lightweight beat him close but clear.

christpuncher · Jul 29, 2020

JLP1978 said: ↑

Philly, here are my scores.

I have it 8 round to 7 for Leonard. I always give Duran 2-4. I always give Leonard 5-7 and 14, 15. The hardest round is the 1st. I usually score that for Leonard but today I gave that to Duran because I felt he had better effective aggression.

D 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10, 12
L 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15

I recognize that this is perhaps astonishing but I have consistently scored it for Leonard and I feel like I am a robbing it when I don’t. With that said I have no problem with this being scored for Duran and it is testament to his greatness to perform like he did in Montreal.

The thing against Leonard is he looks green, his trunks look funny and he looks a little goofy with his body language. He doesn’t look confident and like we are used to seeing with Leonard. Still when he plants his feet and throws he is banging inside just as much as Duran...Duran just looks cooler and more assertive
Click to expand...

Duran landed nearly all the heavier punches in Montreal.
Leonard tried to weasel himself some rounds with his and Dundee's 10 seconds bull**** but it didn't haopen for him.

The Morlocks · Jul 29, 2020

2nd greatest welter ever after Robinson and from Brooks thru Carlos thru Nobuger thru Leonard 1 the greatest welterweight I ever saw.

JLP1978 · Jul 29, 2020

christpuncher said: ↑

Duran landed nearly all the heavier punches in Montreal.
Leonard tried to weasel himself some rounds with his and Dundee's 10 seconds bull**** but it didn't haopen for him.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response.

Do you mind posting your score card? No problem if not.

Thanks for sharing your opinion

christpuncher · Aug 1, 2020

Hi sorry I am away til monday but will be happy to when i get home. Can't turn down an excuse to watch that fight.
I just cant see it for Leonard at all I felt Duran bossed it.

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A look at Duran’s record at Welter

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