A motivated Buster Douglas versus a motivaed Tim Witherspoon

Tim. He had a REALLY good trainer and he was pretty good at neutralizing Holmes jab and Busters jab while quite good was not close to Holmes jab.
Now factor in that Tim had one punch power as well and a cement chin and I think while it could be a good fight Tim wins.
People base alot of Buster off of the Tyson fight which is understandable but was that a prime well prepared Tyson?

 

His resume was absolutely not that good. He beat a Berbick that was absolutely on the way out. Randall Cobb who I liked was pretty bad and really was not world class other then his durability- and I hate saying that - but it was true. Almost every time he fought someone who was good he lost.
Douglas lost to Bey and Ferguson to decent heavyweights no shame in that but he lost to freaking MiKE WHITE which I would assume he didn't train for.
He got a draw against Steffan who Spinks almost killed when Spinks was a part time boxer.
Think the Page win was good along with Oliver who was always tough.
I saw his fight with Tucker and he was beating Tucker until Tucker turned it up and Buster basically quit.
Outside of Tyson, Page, and Oliver that was about it.

 

Spoon (Holmes fight) would beat Douglas (Tyson fight).

 

Douglas set the table with the jab. Double jab right hand, jab cross left hook, his combos came off a jab or a jab feint when he had established the jab. He could slug a bit when things got dirty. But his most noteworthy work came off an excellent jab--including knocking people down with the jab. Thomas had an excellent jab of his own, and Witherspoon fought right at mid range often so he was hittable. It's no shame as Pinklon was one of the best jabbers of his generation. When I consider that Witherspoon dealt with excellent jabbers pretty well overall, I maintain my initial thoughts.

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No it absolutely was. All the struggles you are citing are when he was in his early 20s. The Mike White loss looks horrible he got shutout by a nobody but its one fight. The problem was he had three losses early in an era where everyone was undefeated before hitting the scene. But part of why that happened is he was challenging himself from the get go. He fought 10 contenders before his initial retirement in 1990 and went 5-4-1. That is the same amount as Witherspoon by that time who went 7-3. Witherspoon didn't retire but after the Williams fight was locked out of fighting top HWs.

Tangstad gets name dropped as an awful contender for no reason. He was the best European fighter of the time. For a young prospect outfighting Tangstads a great win or almost win. Every time theres a "worst guy to get a title shot" thread Tangstad gets mentioned. And he really doesn't deserve that.

Berbick was 35 and wasn't at his peak but he won 7 in a row after losing to Douglas. He went the distance with Rahman in 1996 and was never stopped after Tyson. So I don't think its fair to say "Berbick was absolutely on the way out" in 1989 no he had just recently been removed from contention. Williams got his title shot right after beating Berbick and while I wouldn't have agreed with this he was ranked 3rd best HW by the Ring at the end of 1988.

After his third loss he went on a 9-1 run going into the Tyson fight.

 

I respect your opinion just want you to know that.
As regards to Berbick he never beat a name contender after he lost to Williams. He went 9- 1 against what type of opponents?
Part of the problem was that Douglas was known to not give it his all when things were not going his way - the Tucker fight was an illustration of this.
Now Witherspoon was the same way in that he wouldn't take training seriously but his resume is much more vast then Douglas.

 

I maintain my thoughts as well. There's no guarantee Witherspoon handles the Douglas' jab. Douglas doesn't have to land the jab for his offense to flow off it. Another thing Douglas did that many others don't is jab-cross-straight left with power as the right hand has given him rotation of the shoulder to unleash into the straight left. Witherspoon's right mitt in front of the face can't cover a straight left and left hook. If Holmes had a good left hook and would have won by more. Witherspoon's defense thrives on straight punches tho Holmes pounded some of them thru in the eventful 9th round.

Over 12 Witherspoon would have to knock an on song Douglas out to win IMO. There's every chance he might do that too - it's a very interesting fight.

 

Witherspoon.

 

Understood understood we're discussing a really divisive era because the best fighters proved less than the other eras.

Berbick also didn't fight any. But the fact he could go the distance with Rahman years after the fact suggests Buster winning a lopsided decision meant something. What it means is a different story.

They both had the same number of fights against title contenders when Douglas retired. Witherspoon did better against his 10 than Buster did against his but his resume was not much better. The biggest difference is Witherspoon started undefeated got the Holmes title shot and almost won while Douglas took 3 Ls before fighting for the title. But Witherspoon only fought 1 contender before getting his title shot and the Snipes fight was close. Unforgiveable loss to White aside Douglas fought 5.

The 9-1 includes Page, McCall and Berbick. It also includes Mike Williams whose only loss up to this point was a split decision to Witherspoon. Jerry Halstead seems like he was on a nice run. A lot of top HWs beat Jaco and he'd fought Tyson his previous fight. Jaco was 6 ft 6 if nothing else. Another one of his opponents was a late replacement and he was supposed to fight the British champ. Thats 7 of the 9.


I'm not arguing Douglas is better than Witherspoon. I'm saying they are close and should both be rated near the top of this very deep era.

In terms of Douglas not doing well when the going got tough he did stop Tysons comeback. And yes Tyson was exhausted but this was the only close fight he had since Tucker. Tyson and Tucker are really too good to take lessons from this.

Douglas did show up out of shape to the Holyfield fight and thats played a part in his reputation. After winning the lineal title he lost his eye of the tiger no doubt. I'm talking before.

 

Tim kicking ass vs Gonzalez

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Vs. Bruno

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Witherspoon in my opinion.

 

That's the crux of it for me DP. It depends on his temperament. Apart from the one heavy KD vs Tyson he was clean and free pretty much and there was no sustained incoming being shipped. Will his mettle be tested more against Tim? Tyson was woeful that night, dreadful. On Buster's side is that he was in amazing shape that night physically which sure helps the mental.

For me it's a competitive Douglas decision of Witherspoon stops him very late. Either pick is fine.

 

Tim vs Buster would be very interesting - both on their game could be close maybe a spit decision.
You are looking at two elite heavyweight champions here with speed, skill and power.

 

Witherspoon