A new truly 'divsional' ranking system

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by qwertyblahblah, May 7, 2014.


  1. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I started a numerical ranking system a while ago... and now finally have the results to unveil how it works!

    The three fundamental principles of the system are:

    1) Only fights at the weight division can contribute to a ranking in that division. Weight divisions exist because size matters and, moreover, each weight division is a different competitive field, so allowing fights at other weights to contribute to a divisional ranking isn't fair to fighters proven at the weight.

    2) Level of opposition is paramount. You must beat (or draw with) a ranked fighter to get in the rankings. It's unacceptable to hand a fighter a high ranking without beating a ranked fighter. Unique to this system, a loss to a ranked fighter doesn't move a fighter down the rankings: a fighter shouldn't be able to sit on a ranking by taking on lower opposition, so losses to top opposition aren't punished.

    3) Only results in the last three years are included. Three years is a fair period because boxers are generally at their current level for about that time. Older fighters shouldn't be given credit for their prime years, while unproven younger fighters shouldn't be overcredited for their most recent fight or two.

    Ultimately this is trying to show that boxing rankings, just like rankings or standings in all other sports, should only reflect actual accomplishments. Ability, potential, or impressiveness of performances is far too subjective, so allowing that they should be reflected even somewhat in rankings will never allow consensus rankings to be established. That members of the TBRB publish opposing rankings based largely on differing opinion of ability shows how pointless and ineffective this method becomes.

    The 'subjectivity' of Boxrec's ranking system is also the clue to the failure of their system. The statistical details they include are problematic because they're included in an attempt to thoroughly 'evaluate' the quality of wins. They give less credit for split decision wins, but don't seem to get that three judges are only used to arrive at a single decision. They give more credit for knockouts, but boxing isn't about knockouts. They adjust ranking based on past or future results of opponents, but it's pretty obvious a fighter should only be credited in rankings based on the level of an opponent when he fought him. I could go on, their system was made by stats nerds who miss the forest for the trees.

    The only indisputably objective facts are: 1) the date, 2) the weights, and 3) whose hand was raised, and those are the simple, neutral criteria used for this system. Please check out the detailed rules, and the welterweight rankings here...

    http://worldboxingrankings.proboards.com/

    The one aspect of this system I suspect will be controversial is that the winner doesn't necessarily move above the ranked fighter he beat. Manipulating the system so the winner is always higher ends up devaluing the three year period and proven success over more than one fight, which should matter more--as one fight can be just a matter of styles, or a bit of a fluke. As it turns out, an unranked fighter beating a fighter ranked but below top 10 usually puts him higher, but an unranked fighter beating a top-10 opponent usually doesn't move above him.
     
  2. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    Champion:
    Manny Pacquiao: 204 (12 Apr 2014)

    1. Timothy Bradley: 199 (12 Apr 2014)
    2. Floyd Mayweather: 147 (4 May 2013)
    3. Kell Brook: 144 (26 Oct 2013)
    5. Juan Manuel Marquez: 123 (12 Oct 2013)
    5. Keith Thurman: 123 (26 Apr 2014)
    6. Robert Guerrero: 115 (4 May 2013)
    7. Jesus Soto Karass: 90 (14 Dec 2013)
    8. Andre Berto: 84 (27 Jul 2013)
    9. Josesito Lopez: 75 (24 Apr 2014)
    10. Luis Collazo: 72 (30 Jan 2014)

    11. Marcos Maidana: 69 (14 Dec 2013)
    12. Devon Alexander: 66 (7 Dec 2013)
    13. Shawn Porter: 60 (19 Apr 2014)
    14. Carson Jones: 59 (7 Jul 2012)
    15. Jessie Vargas: 48 (16 Mar 2013)
    16. Bethuel Ushona: 45 (5 Oct 2013)
    17. Leonard Bundu: 42 (14 Dec 2013)
    18. Shane Mosley: 30 (27 Nov 2013) (retired)
    19. Jan Zaveck: 26 (9 Mar 2013)
    20. Victor Ortiz: 24 (30 Jan 2014)
    21. Rick Godding: 21 (10 Nov 2012)
    22. Rafal Jackiewicz: 17 (
     
  3. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    Interesting. Porter is 13 th lol
     
  4. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    Good rating for The Special One :deal

    I noticed The Ring have ranked Broner at number 6 on 140 on the strength of his win over Molina :lol::lol::lol:
     
  5. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, and I think everyone raving about Porter are overrating him. This puts the win over Paulie into perspective, as Paulie never beat a welterweight who himself beat a top-30 welterweight.

    By the way, this doesn't include the weekend's fights. Mayweather will move to number 1, Maidana will move to number 7, and Khan gets in at at number 13.
     
  6. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, Brook gets in because he's a natural welterweight who's been at his B level for longer than most of the fighters who are better than him. The system does show Broner never belonged close to a welterweight ranking.
     
  7. Super Hans

    Super Hans The Super One™ banned

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    :good Especially when you take into account his only win there was a robbery. :deal
     
  8. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

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    are you kidding me?

    How can you even concider someone like Ortiz a top 20 fighters when his last win was 3 ****ing years ago? Even boxrec does not have him in their top 20. He lost his last 3 fights by KO.
    This whole list is a joke.
     
  9. Windigo

    Windigo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He just told you.


     
  10. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    PAC as champion I agree :good
     
  11. weegriffin

    weegriffin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How is Maidana below Jesus Soto Karass and Josesito Lopez on this list?
     
  12. jas

    jas ★ Legends: B-HOP ; PAC ★ Full Member

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    Read the posts!
     
  13. antonio plaisir

    antonio plaisir the detonator Full Member

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    boxrec rank fighters on future results? damn, i never realized how good they are.
     
  14. weegriffin

    weegriffin Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I've read it and I know he address's it , but it appears to be a major flaw in the rankings I mean Maidana holds wins over two of the top ten as well as Broner since his lose to Alexander.

    I haven't really went through the rankings to much but thats the first thing that stood out.
     
  15. qwertyblahblah

    qwertyblahblah Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Soto Karass was unranked when Maidana beat him, so Maidana doesn't get credit for him in the rankings. Soto Karass only cracked the rankings when he beat Berto. I think that makes sense. Before Berto, Soto Karass was more a fringe contender, but only became a real player and a legitimate threat after he beat Berto.

    The only ranked welterweight Maidana's beaten is Lopez, and Lopez was lower than Berto was because Lopez only had the one win over Ortiz. Broner was a lightweight who himself beat a fighter who didn't beat a ranked welterweight in Malignaggi. Anyway, after the weekend's fights, with Maidana given credit for fighting Mayweather, the rankings are now...


    Champion:
    Manny Pacquiao: 117

    1. Floyd Mayweather: 207
    2. Timothy Bradley: 199
    3. Kell Brook: 144
    5. Juan Manuel Marquez: 123
    5. Keith Thurman: 123
    6. Robert Guerrero: 115
    7. Marcos Maidana: 98
    8. Jesus Soto Karass: 90
    9. Andre Berto: 84
    10. Josesito Lopez: 75

    11. Luis Collazo: 72
    12. Devon Alexander: 66
    13. Amir Khan: 63
    14. Shawn Porter: 60
    15. Carson Jones: 59
    16. Jessie Vargas: 48
    17. Bethuel Ushona: 45
    18. Leonard Bundu: 42
    19. Jan Zaveck: 26
    20. Victor Ortiz: 24
    21. Rick Godding: 21
    22. Rafal Jackiewicz: 17