A question about Ali's condition against Holmes...

It was also revealed after the fight that Ali had been examined at the Mayo Clinic, and the results were shocking. He had admitted to tingling in his hands, and slurring of his speech. With the conclusiveness of Ali's loss to Holmes, and Ali's worrying medical condition, it seemed incredible that he fought again.

 

Even in that state he'd just walk through a Welterweight IMO

 

ya know, I'm not so sure he was as in as bad a shape as everyone thinks. I really don't think Dundee would have been involved if he was so bad. Or even some others. I know its a money game, I'm just not buying it. I think ali lovers r just holding onto excuses for his losses. Don't misunderstand me, he wasn't the same, and he did have the beginings of his desease, I just don't think he was as bad as he was made out to be. Even if he didn't have parkinsons, this was going to happen to him. He was worn out.

 

You have apparently not looked at this.

Not only was he in the beginning stages of Parkinson's, but he also had a thyroid issue and had to take medicine which basically killed his timing and reflexes. He was not, in any sense of the word, even a professional athlete anymore.

What David is referring to is that he had a quack Nation of Islam Doctor who didn't understand that he was getting too much sugar already, and kept proscribing him to eat coblers and ice cream, which made things worse. Ferdie Pacehco stepped in, but Ali was disinclined to go against the quack.

Ali was a walking disaster. The poorness of his physical condition cannot be overstated.

 

Watch this interview and try saying again that Ali wasn't as bad as they say. This interview took place 8 weeks after the Holmes fight.

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Ali speech was terrible and his eyes were no longer sharp. God, he looked like an old tired man. He had failed simple tests before the Holmes fight took place. In the interview, Parkinson even comments about Ali health and hints that he needs to stop now. That was someone who isn't even involved in boxing. Now do you honestly think Dundee couldn't see what Parkinson could see in that interview? Would you let a man like that in the boxing ring? Dundee and others would still go on to be in Ali corner for his final fight. Ali doctor, Pacheco was the only one who didn't want any part of the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick fight. Pacheco even had letters sent to his camp after the Shavers fight explaining just how messed up Ali was. Whoever it was who gave Ali the all clear to fight should have been going to prison.

 

The only reason Angelo was involved was he felt he owed it to Muhammad; he knew Ali had nothing left, but also knew if things turned bad, he was the only one willing to put his foot down and stop it. Ali was surrounded with hangers-on and ass kissers who had a vested financial interest in his getting in the ring and didn't give a damn what happened.

You saw this at the end of the 10th when he called the ref over; you can hear friggin' Bundini begging Ali to go out there for one more round of beatings, and Dundee's yelling, "Goddamit, no! I'M the Chief Second! It's over!" I don't know if he ever talked to Ali about not taking the fight, but from all I can gather, he likely felt that once Muhammad made the decision, it was up to Angelo to protect his fighter as best he could. When Ali made up his mind - whether to fight Holmes, join the Nation of Islam, or give up his title - his mind was pretty much made up. The only one he would have listened to would have been Herbert Muhammad, who was unlikely to say no to another fat payday ...

 

The sad irony is, that "thyroid condition" never existed - the quack never did any actual lab tests (Williams based his diagnosis on Ali's appearance only, no bloodwork) and Ali was never treated for it again; and stuff like that doesn't just go away on its own. Ali would have lost regardless, but the Thyrolar only made it worse - not only should it never had been prescribed, but he was taking almost three times the recommended dose, believing it was like a vitamin pill; Ali played a roll in his own loss. Tragedy all around -

 

Michael Spinks as a light heavyweight would have shut him out. Actually he would have stopped him.

RJJ at 168 would have beaten him for sure imo and at 160 as well imo. Ali was a zombie. All he had was an attempted counter right from memory, always late.

 

Idk if he was chanpipn that exact year, but hagler would have easily outpointed him. A sitting duck with no defense, no head movement, with like 10 punches thrown per round.

Below middleweight i dont think anyone would be able to just walk through a potential random right hand lead from ali even if his timing and explosiveness were gone. Theres weight classes for a reason and he'd have too big of a nagging puncher's chance for me to pick someone that small to last 15 rounds.

 

Was the Ali from the Berbick fight better then the Ali from the Holmes fight?

 

None. Ali couldn't even pass a neurological exam, but so much money was on the line that the doctor's ignored the results of the exam and still said Ali was fit to fight.

There were concerns over Ali's health prior to the fight, and he was required to undergo a neurological exam at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. Doctors noticed him having trouble touching his finger to his nose and with some muscle coordination, but ultimately determined that he was fit to fight. Ali had begun taking a drug called Thyrolar for a thyroid imbalance, and he would blame it for feeling slow and weak during the fight.
http://www.startribune.com/a-fight-by-fight-look-at-muhammad-ali-s-career-milestones/381850721/