In the past & today, what was & is the weight of the average non HW before they often lose weight, largely through drying out, for a weigh in. Considering those that do not lose weight & those that lose a significant amount, say an exactly typical boxer weighs in at 159-what is he in fighting trim but not having tried to make any weight? And when did the times of weigh ins change, & how much did this effect this? Is this less or more of an issue for the lowest divisions, only seperated by as little as 3 lbs?
Good question. I think each case needs to be treated on it's own merits. I remember reading the ridiculous lengths Jeff Fenech used to go through to make weight, like sucking on ice cubes and barely eating anything for three days before the weigh-in. It's amazing that he had the discipline to go through with it, because he was dehydrated as hell and as weak as a kitten. Okay, that may be an exceptional case but still. I think modern fighters have pretty much made 'drying out' an art form. I remember being almost shocked that Julio Cesar Chavez jr's actual fighting weight in his fight with Martinez was 180 lbs, even though he scaled in at 160 lbs, which is the middleweight limit. Effectively, he was a cruiserweight on fight night! Guys like Golovkin have an actual fighting weight of around 170 lbs. in middleweight championship bouts. So it can be safely said that the actual fighting weight of most fighters these days is a weight division or two (at least) above the weight division they're actually competing at. Floyd is one of the few who don't lose a great deal of weight for the weigh-in. The amateurs do it too. I remember being told by my trainer to always be as lean as possible, so that I could fight at a weight division (in my case 147 lbs. back then) one lower than what I normally would have. No special diet or anything, but they worked us until they got us as low as possible, without sacrificing performance. It was quite impressive how adept they were at guessing your weight, or noticing if you were getting a little heavy. One day I came into the gym after having skipped a whole month. (Partying, girls etc.) and the first thing my trainer said to me (after admonishing me for not showing up) is: "You've gotten fat." I looked down and honestly couldn't see what he was talking about, so I protested that I was the same weight as always. He took me to the scale and weighed me, and I was precisely 2.2 lbs. heavier than the last time I was weighed. They had a real eye for that sort of thing. The emphasis was always weight, weight, weight. Come in as low as possible. In the lower divisions, I think literally every pound counts.
I've stated these FACTS numerous times, and you are 100% right, but some of the mouth pieces try to make light of things they don't like or agree with... i.e BHop in the 40s would most def be floating among the L-HWs and finishing at HW... Hagler now, would be a Jr middleweight and finish at S-MW. there is no denying such very visible realities. fighters standing 6' or more weighing in at 160 or 168, but on fight night are 180 -190lbs are NOT MWs... and in the past not only wouldn't they be doing that, it wouldn't even enter their minds to do so, as they would do exactly the same as their peers of the period; i.e 5'10 - 6' 185lb men were typically L-HW and fought there.
Thanks guys. so when did the weigh ins change from the day of the fight/ and is it always 24 hours before a fight? So virtually everyone does it? When you say a division or two, this is only 3 lbs. at the lower divisions. A smaller guy must cut less in lbs., would you say an AVERAGE MW cuts ~15 lbs.? Thank you!
When did this change? I thought Hagler stayed at MW, why would he dtart lower & end higher if he could maintain max. 160 throughout his career? And if guys were not cutting weight, why would 185 lb.s guys fight as LHW? First of all, they would have to cut at least 10 lbs. to get there. Second, many guys fought at HW BELOW 185,Conn is one of numerous examples, he weighed under 175 & his actual weight may have been under 170.
This weight thing the most overrated blah-blah in boxing. The boxing fighters are one of the worst athletes(sad but true) The weight isn't so important. See the weightlifting! The weightlifting is full of strong talented athletes and a great 170 pounds weightlifter can humiliate a decent 300+ pounds weightlifter.And the weightlifting is about the strength. The boxing isn't strength sport.The stamina,the chin and the skill is much more important than the weight or the power. Haye beat Valuev. What was the weight difference? Hagler or Golovkin ? Bull**** question.
With respect VVM, that does not seem to make sense. The smaller point is a well conditioned boxer is in excellent shape & historically quite athletic. That some guys (mainly at HW w/no weight to make) may be pretty out of shape today-others like Klitchko hyper-fit-does not change this. But the weight IS so important, in weightlifting too. Most all know that weight is not everything. But all other things being equal, it is an advantage, by degrees of weight (diminishing returns after a certain point, especially just of more body fat). That is why records & results of meets correlate strongly with divisions, throughout history & today. And in boxing Michael Spinks was the first to move up to HW & win! And this is when he FOUGHT at something over 200 after bulking up, he would not have beaten the declined champion at anywhere around LHW. Haye/Valuev is a poor example. One, because nobody says weight means everything, & Haye was much better. Mainly though that everyone discerning knows after a certain weight there is at best diminishing returns, ceratinly after the mid-200's. It is why many think even the greatest HWs in history would have a disadvantage over later ATGs-& sometimes maybe against peak 2nd tier fighters like Bruno/Mercer/Tua/Spoon/Berbick/Povetkin-who could outweigh guys like Marciano & Dempsey by 30-50 lbs. easy.
I'm not sure why or when same-day weigh-in's were changed to 24 hours before the fight. I'm guessing sometime early 90's? The emphasis on weight is important, because if you can dry out to a division or two lower than your actual fighting weight and then re-hydrate later, you're going to be naturally larger than the other guys competing there. A couple of pounds may not sound like much, but every fighter wants to gain an edge, however small. Of course, everyone does it now so it all amounts to the same thing at the end of the day.
True if the gap in skill is big enough weight doesn't really matter but What happens if you have a great 168 lbs fighter and a great 185 lbs fighter, fighting each other because day before weigh ins allow for it. You then have two similar level fighters but one is naturally bigger and has the advantages that come with it. Simply put there is weight classes for a reason.
it's a 'Generalisation' based on fellow competitors in respective Era's... in the 1940s a 6' 185lb man might have started in his late teens as 160lb fighter, LEVELED at 175lbs - L-HW, and finished their last few years at 190lbs or so - Heavyweight... this was the Norm 'Generally' at ALL weights. so likewise Hagler today, for example, using the REVERSE modern way, as a 175lb man would fight DOWN in weight just the same as fighters do today! so trying to compare Era's we MUST Consider this reality, again, Example the 6'1" BHop.
There have always been fighters who have done ridiculous things to their body to get their weigth as low as possible. If we brought back the same day weigth in today, some fighteres would step up a weight class, and some wouldn't.
CORRECT! Conn's weight was never under 170, not during his peak anyway... and along the same lines I have a report putting Conn's victories over middleweights into perspective because he WAS the BIGGER man, in other words, EXPECTED victories!
Interesting, thak you gentleman. So the report that Conn was actually a bit under 170 vs. Louis but the scale was fixed heavy for both is false? I dunno, I think Louis was something under 200 there due to his foolish choice to not be seen beating up a little guy. Chappy was infuriated, & he was dehydrated by the 8th round.